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Thread: Is Calvinism Wrong?

  1. #676
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post

    You are adding words to the verse and changing a true doctrine into a false doctrine.

    Ephesians 2:8-9
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


    The verse does not say "by grace alone" it says "by grace".
    The verse does not say "through faith alone" it says "through faith".
    Fine. By that "argument," show us any verse that teaches "Christ alone," fotr justification/salvation.

    Go on record. Go ahead.


    Sophistry.
    Saint John W

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  3. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Fine. By that "argument," show us any verse that teaches "Christ alone," fotr justification/salvation.

    John 14:6
    6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.



    John 5:39
    39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.



    1 John 5:13
    13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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  5. #678
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    John 14:6
    6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.



    John 5:39
    39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.



    1 John 5:13
    13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
    Observe, the continued deception, hypocrisy. You argued:

    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    You are adding words to the verse and changing a true doctrine into a false doctrine.
    The verse does not say "by grace alone" it says "by grace".
    The verse does not say "through faith alone" it says "through faith".

    Fine. By that "argument," show us any verse that teaches, says, "Christ alone," for justification/salvation.

    Go on record. Go ahead.

    None of the verses you quoted, says "alone," deceiver, as you employed in your argument.


    You fraud. And TOL knows it, as "You are adding words to the verse," and thus, on record, assert that "Christ alone" is a false doctrine.
    Saint John W

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  7. #679
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    None of the verses you quoted, says "alone," deceiver, as you employed in your argument.
    My argument is against adding the word alone to change the meaning of the verse.
    The only problem I see is your inability to understand English.

    Adding alone to Jesus does not change the verses I listed.

    John 14:6
    6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me alone.



    John 5:39
    39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me alone.



    1 John 5:13
    13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God alone; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.



    Changing "for by grace you are saved through faith" to "for by grace alone you are saved through faith alone" does change the meaning of the verse.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  8. #680
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    My argument is against adding the word alone to change the meaning of the verse.
    The only problem I see is your inability to understand English.

    Adding alone to Jesus does not change the verses I listed.

    John 14:6
    6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me alone.



    John 5:39
    39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me alone.



    1 John 5:13
    13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God alone; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.



    Changing "for by grace you are saved through faith" to "for by grace alone you are saved through faith alone" does change the meaning of the verse.
    Spin, continued deception, moving the goal posts, as is your MO, "ministry," on TOL, deceiver. You "argued:"

    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    You are adding words to the verse and changing a true doctrine into a false doctrine.
    The verse does not say "by grace alone" it says "by grace".
    The verse does not say "through faith alone" it says "through faith".

    None of the verses you quoted, says "alone," deceiver, as you employed in your argument.


    You fraud. And TOL knows it, as "You are adding words to the verse," and thus, on record, assert that "Christ alone" is a false doctrine.


    You deceptive troll/ette.
    Saint John W

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  10. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    None of the verses you quoted, says "alone," deceiver, as you employed in your argument.
    Please come back after you have taken "English as a second language" and "Critical reading" classes.
    Until you do that, your inability to understand English and your inability to understand what you read will keep you from having anything to add to this discussion.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Please come back after you have taken "English as a second language" and "Critical reading" classes.
    Until you do that, your inability to understand English and your inability to understand what you read will keep you from having anything to add to this discussion.
    Stuff your spin. And that is funny, coming from a fraud that spams "the Greek," who cannot speak/read/understand/write any "the Greek," and there is no such thing as "the Greek." Teaches us some "the English," would you poser? Please? You're not in my league, in "ability," so take your seat.
    Saint John W

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  13. #683
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post


    Those were not supposed to be difficult and they weren't trick questions. Clete, why all the long elaborate smoke screen yet without actually answering what was asked?

    I responded directly. I don't see the problem. I haven't followed the whole discussion. Perhaps I missed the point.


    Those things are present in the lives of some and not in others. There are various reasons why or why not. If they are present in your life because you're trying really hard to be a good or better person.... (see the rest of my post above)

    If they aren't, it could well be for the very same reason, by the way.

    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    You seem to be ignoring some of the things Paul said.
    You seem not to be a Christian. At least not one in the normal sense of the word. I do not discuss Christians doctrine with people who don't understand the simplest, most basically fundamental aspect of the entire Christian faith. Namely, that Jesus' death and resurrection is the bottom most foundational basis for the entire thing. You miss that, you've missed it altogether.

    What did you think, that if you started the exact same discussion on a different thread that my reaction would be different?

    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Over 5000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    I responded directly. I don't see the problem. I haven't followed the whole discussion. Perhaps I missed the point.


    Those things are present in the lives of some and not in others. There are various reasons why or why not. If they are present in your life because you're trying really hard to be a good or better person.... (see the rest of my post above)

    If they aren't, it could well be for the very same reason, by the way.

    Clete
    Four yes or no questions were asked. No yes or no answers have been received, either from you, or Glory whom I originally asked. It was a personal question, not dependent on anyone else other than the one answering the question.

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    Over 5000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    You seem not to be a Christian. At least not one in the normal sense of the word. I do not discuss Christians doctrine with people who don't understand the simplest, most basically fundamental aspect of the entire Christian faith.

    Clete
    I am beginning to think that someone who refuses to answer "Do you attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love God" and does this change manifest itself in your life" isn't a Christian in the normal sense of the word either.

  19. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    You're not in my league,
    Little league?
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
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    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  20. #688
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Four yes or no questions were asked. No yes or no answers have been received, either from you, or Glory whom I originally asked. It was a personal question, not dependent on anyone else other than the one answering the question.
    Yes, Yes, Yes & Yes.


    Okay, now what?

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Yes, Yes, Yes & Yes.

    Okay, now what?
    Now I get to say that your even if your theological reasoning may sound strange to me, if it is producing a good fruit of the Holy Spirit then it isn't isn't so important to argue against. Matthew 21:31, "Whether of them twain did the will of his father?"

    I didn't expect for people to dodge and evade that question... I thought it was an opportunity towards resolution.

  23. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    You seem not to be a Christian. At least not one in the normal sense of the word.
    I am a Christian in the Biblical sense.
    What you think is the normal sense of the word does not to appear to be Biblical.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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