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Thread: Is Calvinism Wrong?

  1. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Hebrews 12:2
    I've seen several meanings of that word...captain, prince, example and leader, but never seen it used as bestower.

    We see the same Greek word as AUTHOR used here as the CAPTAIN...

    Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

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    Over 5000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I've seen several meanings of that word...captain, prince, example and leader, but never seen it used as bestower.

    We see the same Greek word as AUTHOR used here as the CAPTAIN...
    Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
    Adding on to that above,

    Hebrews 12:2 KJV
    (2) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    1 John 5:4 KJV
    (4) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

    The author and finisher of our faith would be he who created our plan of salvation and he who redeems us at his coming, would it not?

    Revelation 22:12-13 KJV
    (12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
    (13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

    It is not uncommon to hear the phrase "our faith" used in the sense of "everything that we truly hope for and believe."

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Luke 6:44-45 KJV
    (44) For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
    (45) A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

    I am not interested in playing that type of game with you. If you don't want to speak peaceably then you needn't respond to posts and questions that aren't directed to you anyways.
    Genesis Revelation. So there-I just "one upped" you.

    Not interested, you quip? No, that would the attitude of most TOL members, toward your cliche sound bytes.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Luke 6:44-45 KJV
    (44) For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
    (45) A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

    I am not interested in playing that type of game with you. If you don't want to speak peaceably then you needn't respond to posts and questions that aren't directed to you anyways.
    Luke 6:44, you assert? And yet you conveniently delete, leave out, the verses, to follow:


    Luke 6 KJV
    46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48 he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.


    Luke 18:22 KJV Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.



    Do it.


    I thought so, as another "all of the commands of the bible are about me, directed to me, for my obedience" drone is exposed.



    What else do you want to "prove," from the bible?
    Saint John W

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    Over 5000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Luke 6:44, you assert? And yet you conveniently delete, leave out, the verses, to follow:


    Luke 6 KJV
    46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48 he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.


    Luke 18:22 KJV Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

    Do it.

    I thought so, as another "all of the commands of the bible are about me, directed to me, for my obedience" drone is exposed.

    What else do you want to "prove," from the bible?
    Aside from that was a specific instruction for that one person, even if that is interpreted as applicable as a general statement of principle, I have probably come closer to fulfilling that literal command than anyone posting on these boards. Is there anything else I would like you to prove? How about the meaning of silence?

    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I've seen several meanings of that word...captain, prince, example and leader, but never seen it used as bestower.

    We see the same Greek word as AUTHOR used here as the CAPTAIN...
    Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
    Interesting. The link doesn't have bestower for me

    Archay the word for 'archeology' and archaic etc. thus is associated with 'beginning' or beginner. Ago is to lead or bring forth, thus "beginner and one who leads our faith forth. For me: 1 Corinthians 4:7 and James 4:14-16
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Interesting. The link doesn't have bestower for me

    Archay the word for 'archeology' and archaic etc. thus is associated with 'beginning' or beginner. Ago is to lead or bring forth, thus "beginner and one who leads our faith forth. For me: 1 Corinthians 4:7 and James 4:14-16
    I used the word "bestower" because of the idea some seem to have that saving faith is bestowed upon us. Which is why I thought you were quoting that text in Hebrews. Was I wrong about that being your intent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Aside from that was a specific instruction for that one person, even if that is interpreted as applicable as a general statement of principle, I have probably come closer to fulfilling that literal command than anyone posting on these boards. Is there anything else I would like you to prove? How about the meaning of silence?

    ...
    That's an odd thing to say. What is it you come closer to fulfilling?

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    That's an odd thing to say. What is it you come closer to fulfilling?
    The "forsaking all that you have" part. It was a complicated situation that is difficult to explain, but the other option was to later answer why I had chosen to continue to go along with what I knew to be wrong... "what is not of faith is sin." I apologize for bringing in a reference that I won't properly elaborate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    The "forsaking all that you have" part. It was a complicated situation that is difficult to explain, but the other option was to later answer why I had chosen to continue to go along with what I knew to be wrong... "what is not of faith is sin." I apologize for bringing in a reference that I won't properly elaborate.
    You might be surprised at how many have willing done that very thing. Then we have this.

    Per John W's comment, was this written as something you were encouraged to do?

    Acts 2:44-45
    44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Aside from that was a specific instruction for that one person, even if that is interpreted as applicable as a general statement of principle, I have probably come closer to fulfilling that literal command than anyone posting on these boards. Is there anything else I would like you to prove? How about the meaning of silence?

    ...
    I lived in th woods fasting for a spell, even poured dirt on my head.
    Reckon that'll get me into th Kingdom of Heaven?
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    You might be surprised at how many have willing done that very thing. Then we have this.

    Per John W's comment, was this written as something you were encouraged to do?
    Acts 2:44-45
    44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
    I think that Christ's statements to the young man were for a different reason. If the young man sold all that he had, he still has the money and can go back at any time. If he gives it to his friends, they might also repay him at a later date. But if he sells all that he has and gives it to the poor, you cannot go and take back what will be quickly spent. It would be like the proverbial "burning your ships" to state that there's no sense looking back until you reach the destination.

    Matthew 19:21 KJV
    (21) Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

    While I believe that Christ's command to the young man was literal in this sense (and that Jesus intended him to literally follow him) I think that the spiritual application still applies to all of us. We need to be ready to set aside anything that we have if it would interfere with following He whom we should follow. I am sure that there are many different versions or applications of this that we have faced.

    The passage in Acts 2:44-45 I think has different application, that being the actual purpose of mutual love and care for the brethren. Although not a specific commandment, I think it does demonstrate a good spirit, one that would do well to encourage in all of us, and it is in keeping with similar passages in James:

    1 John 3:16-17 KJV
    (16) Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
    (17) But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

    This could easily branch into another subject.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    I lived in th woods fasting for a spell, even poured dirt on my head.
    Reckon that'll get me into th Kingdom of Heaven?
    Not exactly... actions don't buy the Kingdom of Heaven, He judges the heart. However, Jesus did say that blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. If we have things that we need to do to remind us of humility, it is better to part with pride on our knees than to be cast into hell fire proudly defiant on our own two feet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    You might be surprised at how many have willing done that very thing. Then we have this.

    Per John W's comment, was this written as something you were encouraged to do?

    Acts 2:44-45
    44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
    Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

    Act 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
    Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
    Act 11:29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:
    Act 11:30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.


    "Anybody here seen th' fuzzy-wuzzy lovin' cup explosion? I think we missed it!"- The Guess Who
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Not exactly... actions don't buy the Kingdom of Heaven, He judges the heart. However, Jesus did say that blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. If we have things that we need to do to remind us of humility, it is better to part with pride on our knees than to be cast into hell fire proudly defiant on our own two feet.
    Mixing dispensations renders apparent contradictions.

    Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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