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Thread: Justification from everlasting !

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    Justification from everlasting !

    Ps 103:17

    17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

    I do not think it will be argued that Justification by Faith is a very great mercy to experience in this life. This mercy was not just random or by chance , or by freewill, but was established as a sure mercy from everlasting. God, the everlasting God, Preached the gospel of Justification to Abraham centuries ago Gal 3:8

    8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

    which is referring to Gen 12:3

    3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

    But now what was the previous bases for this Mercy ? I believe it was the everlasting Covenant which is what Ps 103:17 is referring to, as the Mercy from everlasting.

    I believe Jesus coming in the incarnation was a effect of that Covenant and why He is called the promised mercy.

    Lk 1:67-73,77,78

    67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

    68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

    69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

    70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

    71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

    72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

    73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,


    77To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

    78Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, !

    So Christ coming to die for His People is the fruition of the everlasting covenant. His coming was an act of mercy, in that He would give himself, his soul an offering for sin, for the transgressions of God's People.
    Last edited by beloved57; July 9th, 2011 at 10:50 AM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Justification from everlasting ! continued

    So Christ coming to die for His People is the fruition of the everlasting covenant. His coming was an act of mercy, in that He would give himself, his soul an offering for sin, for the transgressions of God's People.

    Isa 53:8-11

    8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

    9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

    10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

    11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    Now no one can read this and not perceive that Christ came into the world with the sin burden [imputed] of His People was to die for. Was not that evident from His prayer right before his crucifixion in the garden. Was not the cup He was to drink, the punishment for the imputed Transgressions of the Elect of God Matt 26:38
    -42
    38Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

    39And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

    40And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

    41Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

    42He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

    Lk 22:44

    And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

    I believe this vividly shows That sin had been laid to His charge already.

    Now here is the big question that needs to be answered, When was this cup laid to His Charge ? We know it was before the actual cross, for the foregoing event in the garden supposes that ! The cup of the imputed guilt of The sins of God's People was laid on Him from everlasting, as the Surety of the Everlasting Covenant.

    He struck hands as it were with the Father to become its Surety Prov 6:1

    My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger,

    Now if this be True, then it must also be True, that God, from everlasting, never laid to the charge the iniquities of them Christ had become a Surety for, because God could not now hold them both responsible, that is Christ and them He covenanted for.

    This would be therefore their Justification from everlasting. How can those who God will not impute sin, not be Justified ? Thats why Paul wrote in Rom 8:33

    33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    We plainly see here that non imputed charges = God Justifying !

    Here we have it, God not laying any charges on His elect, because they were laid upon their surety, constitutes their Justification before Him.

    The only way this Truth can be denied, or not true, is Christ not having become a surety for the sins of Gods elect from everlasting..
    Last edited by beloved57; July 10th, 2011 at 10:40 AM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    What is Justification ?

    What is Justification ? This word as used in scripture is never used in the physical sense as to produce an inward work in the sinner, but it is strictly forensic, and it is opposed not to our condition as sinful creatures and enmity towards God, but to a state of legal condemnation.

    The greek word is dikaiōsis and means:

    the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

    2) abjuring to be righteous, justification

    The word is used twice in the NT:

    Rom 4:25 ;Rom 5:18

    It is a term of Law and utilized in Judicial affairs conducted in a court. Those whom Christ died for stand Justified, not guilty before God, solely on the principal or ground work of Christ Blood Rom 5:9 ! And that while they are in a state of impurity and sinfulness. See Rom 5:10
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Justification is a external act of God [upon the sinner] as a Judge, acting in a Court of Justice on guilty sinners, and not the internal work of the Spirit on the heart as in 2 Thess 2:13. God is acting upon the principal of Justice,according to His Law, He Justifies the Ungodly, and those be the Elect of God. This Justification is not based upon having been renewed by the Spirit as per Titus 3:5, nor because they have repented or believed, nor any such obedience of theirs, but solely on the Obedience and Blood of Christ. Rom 5:19

    19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    Rom 8:33-34

    33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Justification is not the act of man, nor is it contingent upon his knowledge of it, but it is solely the act of God the Judge, and is valid from the date that Judge decided the case. God decided on the case of His own Elect before the world began, and Chose them in Christ Eph 1:4;2 Tim 1:9, and in His Righteous verdict gave them Grace and Every Spiritual Blessing for Time and Eternity. Their iniquities which were foreknown by Him, were laid on Christ as He was constituted the Surety of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace Heb 13:20; Isa 53:6, and so God will not impute [lay to the charge] their sins unto them.

    These are they that David said Ps 32:1-2

    1Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

    2Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

    See Also Rom 4:7-8 ; 2 Cor 5:19; Jn 1:47. God will not impute sin to His Elect because He has laid them already on Christ, and so they are Blessed Matt 25:34

    34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    Last edited by beloved57; December 25th, 2013 at 08:08 AM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Is it just a decree to Justify ?

    Some who call themselves believers and upholding the Faith of Christ, so understand Justification as a decree to Justify, meaning they believe God will Justify a sinner in the future, but until such time they are born again and brought to act in faith or believing on Christ, and then by this act of reliance, God will then Justifies them. THATS WORKS. So Justification is made like a reward or payment for ones act of believing. This teaching is not of God, but it opposes the work of Christ. For if God declares a sinner righteous because they believe in Christ, it is faith or believing as an act or obedience of ours, and not the blood and righteousness of Christ which is the cause of our Justification. Yet scripture is clear, that as a Judge, God Justifies us because Christ died for us, or because our sins where imputed to Him; and not because we believed it. For Faith is the evidence of Justification and not the cause of it !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Is "justification" different from "forgiveness" and if so how?
    "Not everything that is clever, is true."

    - - St Ephiram of Syria - -

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealeaf View Post
    Is "justification" different from "forgiveness" and if so how?
    They are different but connected. Forgiveness is because of the redemption we have through the blood of Christ. Eph 1:7

    7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    Justification is a legal term and means to be declared not guilty and to be declared righteous. This was so when God decided in eternity past that He was not going to impute sin upon the elect world 2 Cor 5:19. Where there is not sin imputed, there is no Transgression, and hence Justification. 2 Cor 5:21

    The very fact that the elect world did not have it sins laid to its charge, gives birth to the fact that they were forgiven of them because of the work of Christ, His shed blood.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Lambs book of Life !

    In line with this truth of Justification from everlasting, I believe that the Justified had their names written in the Lambs book of life at the same date that God purposed that their sins would be sentenced upon Christ, and that He must die their death, and for them to live through Him. 1 Jn 4:9

    In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

    Notice that God sent His Son. When was it determined that He would be sent and that the elect would live [spiritually] through Him ? I believe it was determined in the Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11

    11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    Which had to do with the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20

    20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

    I see the Eternal Purpose and the Everlasting Covenant as the Same !

    I believe all whom had their names written in the Lambs book of Life from the foundation, were Justified from all things, as early !

    Rev 21:27

    And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Slain from the foundation !

    That God had made a Judicial decision not to punish the elect for their sins [Justification] but to impute them unto Christ, in order that He may bear the Justice of them, is seen from the words we read "slain from the foundation " Rev 13:8

    8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    This is a revelation of the Mind and Purpose of God ! The word slain here is in the greek a perfect passive participle, and denotes that He had been slain once and for all in the Past with results or effects into the present. And by it being from the foundation denotes its none association with time, as it pertains to what is True in the Mind Of God. That is, Christ death in time did not have to yet occur for the reality of it and its benefits were real in God's Reckoning.

    Its like what Paul states in Rom 4:17

    17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not[In time] as though they were[already happened].

    So from the foundation, Christ had already died for the sins of those He was to die for in God's reckoning, and so they had to be Justified or reconciled to God by His Death as Early in God's Mind. Because scripture states Rom 5:10

    10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    " we were reconciled to God by the death or slaying of His Son " So according to what we see of Rev 13:8, they were Reconciled to God from the foundation ! And to be Reconciled is to be Justified !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    They are different but connected. Forgiveness is because of the redemption we have through the blood of Christ. Eph 1:7

    7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    Justification is a legal term and means to be declared not guilty and to be declared righteous. This was so when God decided in eternity past that He was not going to impute sin upon the elect world 2 Cor 5:19. Where there is not sin imputed, there is no Transgression, and hence Justification. 2 Cor 5:21

    The very fact that the elect world did not have it sins laid to its charge, gives birth to the fact that they were forgiven of them because of the work of Christ, His shed blood.
    So we are not forgiven of our sins because God grants forgiveness to those who ask it in the name of Jesus but rather have our transgressions not be counted as sins at all because we are elect. A people chosen from eternity to be saved?
    "Not everything that is clever, is true."

    - - St Ephiram of Syria - -

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    The idea that one imagines himself to be a member of a elite group selected from eternity for salvation seems so incredibly arrogant that I want to say that believing oneself to be a member of such a group immediately disqualifies you from membership. You can't both believe in election from eternity and be one of those elected from eternity.

    However I can't really say that because I don't believe there is any such thing. Nor would I actually dare to say that belief in one's elected status would disqualify one from salvation. If I believed it, it would be the most arrogant form of spiritual pride and would most likely damn me. But I can't say what it might do to you.
    "Not everything that is clever, is true."

    - - St Ephiram of Syria - -

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    sl:

    So we are not forgiven of our sins because God grants forgiveness to those who ask it in the name of Jesus
    Not in my Religion and according to the God I serve and worship, His forgiveness was granted to them that Christ shed His blood for Matt 26:28

    28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    The word remission here is the greek word aphesis and means:


    forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

    It is translated forgiveness six other times in the NT one of which is Acts 5:31

    31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

    The exalted Christ gives Israel [ His Chosen or His Church] the forgiveness of sins.

    Its totally by His Grace, they don't need to ask for it, they have it without asking, without knowing about it, until it is revealed to them. Eph 1:7


    7In whom we [The Chosen of vs 4] have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;


    This is what believers in my religion believe, i don't know about yours.

    The blood of Christ is the basis of the elects forgiveness even from the foundation, because according to God's Purpose He was already slain. Rev 13:8


    8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    It can be said that way because God had already determined that Christ would die for the sins of all those whose names had been written in the lam's book of life. God in making that determination, never imputed their sins upon them, but upon the Lamb of God.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    sl:

    The idea that one imagines himself to be a member of a elite group selected from eternity for salvation seems so incredibly arrogant that I want to say that believing oneself to be a member of such a group immediately disqualifies you from membership.
    Sorry, this thread is not about me.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    An Everlasting Salvation !

    Isa 45:17

    But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

    Israel here is merely All of God's Elect, Chosen In Christ [Israel] before the foundation !

    When is an Elect Person, Chosen in Christ ? Before the foundation Eph 1:4

    4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    When are they saved ? Now this is going to shock most if not all of you, but an Elect one Chosen in Christ before the foundation, they have been saved from everlasting !

    Everlasting has regard to no beginning and no ending Prov 8:23

    23 I [Christ the wisdom of God] was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

    So what does that mean if we were Chosen in Christ before the foundation ? How long have we existed ?

    Lets look at Ps 103:17

    17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

    Notice that David writes under the inspiration of God, that the Mercy of the LORD is FROM EVERLASTING, upon certain individuals " Those who are fearing Him in Time" to Everlasting.

    Now are the Elect saved by Mercy ? Yes Titus 3:5

    5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    What can be more plainer ? When in God's Estimation were the Elect not reckoned as Vessels of Mercy ? Rom 9:22-23

    22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

    23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

    The Elect in the Eternal Purpose of God, have always been Saved by His Mercy in Christ, from Everlasting to Everlasting !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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