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Thread: Is Calvinism Wrong?

  1. #1186
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I'm pretty sure that he was too. But that's just another myth of Churchianity (that Christ kept the law perfectly FOR us).
    Well, had He not done so, He'd not be qualified as a sacrifice for sin, right? Additionally, His righteousness is imputed to us. So, in that sense saying it was lived "for us" isn't incorrect.

    However, as with most anything, it can easily be taken too far.

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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  3. #1187
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Could be.
    But to say that there was a law given that could be obeyed that grants eternal life was dead wrong.
    If that's what he was saying, then I'd agree but I'm pretty sure that wasn't the point he was making.

    I could be wrong. I'd ask him but he seems to have an issue with answering direct questions.

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Well, had He not done so, He'd not be qualified as a sacrifice for sin, right? Additionally, His righteousness is imputed to us. So, in that sense saying it was lived "for us" isn't incorrect.

    However, as with most anything, it can easily be taken too far.
    The Lord was not righteous because He kept the law perfectly. It was the other way around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  7. #1189
    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The purpose of the Kingdom Gospel is to reveal to us who Jesus Christ is. It is not enough to know who Jesus is. Multitudes know who Jesus is, but they have never trusted him to save them.
    The purpose of the gospel is not to "merely reveal" who Jesus Christ is. The purpose of the gospel is so that we might know Jesus Christ, not in the shallow sense that you used "know" in your second sentence, but in the form of "know" that comes with intimate faith and belief.

    Romans 10:9 KJV
    (9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    James 2:19 KJV
    (19) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

    Knowledge of Jesus Christ also entails faith and belief in Jesus Christ... and Jesus does tell us that the gospel saves.

    Luke 8:11-12 KJV
    (11) Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
    (12) Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

    Mark 8:35 KJV
    (35) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

    There is one gospel unto salvation for the justification of the ungodly, and every man who has lived (save God) is among the ungodly.

  8. #1190
    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    It isn't "my take". All anyone has to do is read it. James explicitly says that a man is justified by works.

    They're in agreement except that they say the EXACT opposite things.

    Resting in Him,
    Clete
    James gives the same standard of justification as Paul, even down to the specific example of Abraham who was justified by faith. The only way you could claim difference is by pulling statements out of context and ignoring the examples given for clarification.

    Whenever I have put concise basic questions to you before to try to pin your answer down you have neglected to answer and continued with a flip-flopping definition. So if you are able, please answer straightly: does the word "work" or "works" stand alone in meaning, or is it a word that derives its meaning from its context?

    Your argument has the same flaws of reasoning used by those that claim that "Jesus is not God" because "Jesus was a man" and "God is not a man" and those that attempt to oppose the whole scripture on alleged contradiction because"God is not a man that he should repent" and "God repented."

    Would you be willing to respond simply with willingness to step through a few questions? This shouldn't be too hard with cooperation.

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Did you have a point?

    Rom 3:26 KJV To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

    Nothing about Jesus keeping the law perfectly FOR anyone else.

    Romans 3:25 puts is this way: "a propitiation through faith in his blood". Nothing about vicarious law keeping.
    Yes, sloppy wolf Pate keeps spamming this made up, satanic "vicarious law keeping," that is from the pits of hell, his future residence, unless he repents/changes his mind.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I am tired of your rant. I am putting you on ignore.
    Translation: You folded, like a wet suit, in August, in my area, Dallas..............

    Observe the dementia, lying, deception:
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The apostles did not preach a Gospel prior to Acts 2.
    vs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    What they did preach was the "Kingdom Gospel."

    Face you...defiled, seared conscience, and all...
    Saint John W

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    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The Lord was not righteous because He kept the law perfectly. It was the other way around.
    Okay, I can agree with that but His temptation was real and his refusal to sin was real. Regardless of the how or why, the fact remains that He did live a perfect life.

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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  14. #1194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    James gives the same standard of justification as Paul, even down to the specific example of Abraham who was justified by faith. The only way you could claim difference is by pulling statements out of context and ignoring the examples given for clarification.

    Whenever I have put concise basic questions to you before to try to pin your answer down you have neglected to answer and continued with a flip-flopping definition. So if you are able, please answer straightly: does the word "work" or "works" stand alone in meaning, or is it a word that derives its meaning from its context?

    Your argument has the same flaws of reasoning used by those that claim that "Jesus is not God" because "Jesus was a man" and "God is not a man" and those that attempt to oppose the whole scripture on alleged contradiction because"God is not a man that he should repent" and "God repented."

    Would you be willing to respond simply with willingness to step through a few questions? This shouldn't be too hard with cooperation.
    I'm not pulling anything out of context. One says that a man is justified by works that other says that a man is justified apart from works.

    All anyone has to do is read it.

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Okay, I can agree with that but His temptation was real and his refusal to sin was real. Regardless of the how or why, the fact remains that He did live a perfect life.
    I was not arguing that. I was arguing against the idea that He vicariously kept the law for us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Translation: You folded, like a wet suit, in August, in my area, Dallas..............

    Observe the dementia, lying, deception:


    vs.





    Face you...defiled, seared conscience, and all...
    Do you think you could tone it down a little?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    Do you think you could tone it down a little?
    No. I don't like wolves, like you apparently do, "making nice," with them. Saint John I am. Move on. Do you think you could be relevant?


    So there.
    Last edited by john w; November 8th, 2018 at 04:06 PM.
    Saint John W

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    All that Jesus is and all that Jesus did was for our justification. Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2nd Corinthians 5:17. Jesus is the end and the fulfillment of God's holy law, Matthew 5:18.

    When Jesus lived, we lived in him, Romans 5:19.
    When Jesus died, we died with him, Romans 6:3.
    When Jesus came out of Joseph's new tomb, we came out with him, Romans 6:5.
    When Jesus ascended into heaven, we ascended with him, Colossians 3:1.
    Our real life is hid with Christ in God, Colossians 3:3.

    When Jesus appears we shall be like him, Colossians 3:4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Jesus is God's new Adam
    More made up spam, slop, from sloppy Pate, as he continues, with no rational reason, to regurgitate made up biblical terms, "doctrine," that has NADA scriptural support. None!

    1 Corinthians 15:45 KJV And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


    He is "the last Adam," slop master, not God's "new Adam," as you assert, and no amount of you explaining why you speculate he should be referred to as "God's new Adam," can justify your perverting the scripture. Leave the words of the book alone, charlatan, and respect what the book says, not what you think it should say/read, based upon what these alleged teachers taught you.


    Watch the spin he spews forth....Watch.


    Knock it of, sloppy Pate, with your wicked winging it, making up biblical terms, and "doctrine," on the fly. You have no excuse.

    What is next, closet Catholic.....Mary is "the new Eve?" Oh, yes, Catholics already have asserted that.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    James gives the same standard of justification as Paul, even down to the specific example of Abraham who was justified by faith. The only way you could claim difference is by pulling statements out of context and ignoring the examples given for clarification.
    Not the same. James speaks of two things. Faith and works.
    Look carefully and you'll find it. James' "standard" of justification is NOT the same as Paul's.

    James 2:21-24 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


    And Paul speaks of one. Faith and NO WORKS.

    Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

    As people keep telling you. Things that are different are NOT the same.

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