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Thread: Is Calvinism Wrong?

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    Is Calvinism Wrong?

    Knight suggested that someone should do a thread on this. Here it is.

    Jesus said, "Beware of men" Matthew 10:17. It is from men that false doctrines come. In the case of Calvinism it was John Calvin. All false religions are founded by men and are man centered. The purpose of religion whether it be the Calvinist religion, the Catholic religion, or whatever religion is to lead you away from the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 4:4, into another Gospel, that is not the Gospel, Galatians 1:6-8.

    The Calvinist is not interested in what God has done for him in Jesus Christ. The Calvinist is mainly pre-occupied in whether or not he has been predestinated to eternal life. He will search out the scriptures that he believes will support that he has been predestinated. It is all about him and is very subjective.

    The glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ is not subjective, it is objective (out side of us). We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel. The Gospel took place over 2,000 years ago before we were born, The Gospel is about how God in the person of Jesus Christ has reconciled us and the world unto himself, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. If God has reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, then no one needs to be predestinated. The effects of this Gospel are very subjective when they are embraced and believed upon. All that believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ are given the Holy Spirit and are born again by the word of God, 1 Peter 1:23. The granting of the Holy Spirit is how God honors ones faith in his Son Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:13.

    Calvinist, Catholics and other religions do not believe the life changing Gospel of Jesus Christ. They are outside of the faith and are under the judgment of God.

    Mod Edit--The over the top lines removed.
    Last edited by Sherman; September 13th, 2018 at 09:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Knight suggested that someone should do a thread on this. Here it is.

    Jesus said, "Beware of men" Matthew 10:17. It is from men that false doctrines come. In the case of Calvinism it was John Calvin. All false religion are founded by men and are man centered. The purpose of religion whether it be the Calvinist religion, the Catholic religion, or whatever religion is to lead you away from the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 4:4, into another Gospel, that is not the Gospel, Galatians 1:6-8.

    The greatest tool that Satan posses is "Subjectiveism". The Calvinist is not interested in what God has done for him in Jesus Christ. The Calvinist is mainly pre-occupied in whether or not he has been predestinated to eternal life. He will search out the scriptures that he believes will support that he has been predestinated. It is all about him and is very subjective. Satan is very happy.

    The glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ is not subjective, it is objective (out side of us). We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel. The Gospel took place over 2,000 years ago before we were born, The Gospel is about how God in the person of Jesus Christ has reconciled us and the world unto himself, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. If God has reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, then no one needs to be predestinated. The effects of this Gospel are very subjective when they are embraced and believed upon. All that believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ are given the Holy Spirit and are born again by the word of God, 1 Peter 1:23. The granting of the Holy Spirit is how God honors ones faith in his Son Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:13.

    Calvinist, Catholics and other religions do not believe the life changing Gospel of Jesus Christ. They are outside of the faith and are under the judgment of God. They have embraced the doctrine of demons and are lost.
    Calvinists teach salvation exclusively by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

    Everything else is window dressing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Calvinists teach salvation exclusively by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
    Yes, but they deny the Scriptures when they assert that only some people have the ability to believe the gospel.

    The Apostle Paul warned those who received his epistles that there would be people in the local churches who would pervert the Scriptures:

    "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears" (Acts 20:29-31).

    Paul also identified some of the "grievous wolves" who would pervert the Scriptures:

    "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (2 Cor.11:14-15).

    In the following passage Paul reveals the method Satan's minions employ in order to pervert the glorious gospel of the grace of God:

    "And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God" (2 Cor.4:3-5).

    Here we read that those who are perishing had the ability to see the light of the gospel but they were perishing because they were blinded to its light.

    That can only mean that even the unsaved can see the light of the gospel. That means that before anyone can be blinded to its light they must first have the ability to see its light. So all people have the ability to see the light of the gospel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Yes, but...
    There is no but. That is the gospel. Everything else is window dressing.

    Until they deny the gospel, they aren't denying the gospel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    There is no but. That is the gospel. Everything else is window dressing.
    So apart from the gospel everything found in the Bible is nothing but window dressing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So apart from the gospel everything found in the Bible is nothing but window dressing?


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    I believe ANYTHING that deviates from the 'Gospel of the grace of God,' (as Paul calls it) just might have Satan's influence behind it. The Bible preaches that eternal life is received by ANYONE who hears the Gospel (Paul's Gospel) and places ALL their faith in Christ. (Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Ephesians 2: 8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 1:3 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

    Calvinists misinterpret/misrepresent Scripture by making the Gospel/Scripture FIT their particular belief system.




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    Calvinists CHANGE (Ephesians 2:8-9 " For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.) by saying that the GIFT is faith and not GRACE. The verse is actually saying, that we are SAVED by God's Grace through OUR faith and that we don't receive God's Grace by our own WORKS. Otherwise, we could boast that we EARNED His Grace. This is an example of how the Calvinists interpret Scripture to make it fit their 'belief system.' And, it is truly a 'belief system' and NOT the truth of the Word of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Calvinists teach salvation exclusively by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

    Correct.

    But in order to Hear God's Words which are Spiritual 1 Cor 2:13, the prerequisite is that men must be Born of the Spirit of God.

    Jesus said:

    John 8:43, 47

    43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

    47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


    You see, the Created thing has no say in the matter of what he is spiritually capable of hearing or seeing, but is totally dependent upon God's intervention.

    Prov. 20:12
    The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.

    God makes the Spiritual ear for Hearing, and the Spiritual eye for Seeing !

    Thus the only Faith that pleases God is a Fruit of the Spirit Given in New Birth Gal. 5:22, because we know from what Paul preached, that those in the flesh [not Born of the Spirit] cannot please God Rom. 8:8 !

    Also, God's Grace was not given to all mankind without exception, but only to His Elect Eph. 1:4-7 according to His Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph. 3:11 before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9 !
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    “This doctrine is so horrible, that I am persuaded, if there were a council of unclean spirits assembled in hell, and their prince the devil were to put the question either to all of them in general, or to each in particular, to learn their opinion about the most likely means of stirring up the hatred of men against God their Maker; nothing could be invented by them that would be more efficacious for this purpose, or that could put a greater affront upon God’s love for mankind, than that infamous decree of the late Synod, and the decision of that detestable formulary, by which the far greater part of the human race are condemned to hell for no other reason, than the mere will of God, without any regard to sin; the necessity of sinning, as well as that of being damned, being fastened on them by that great nail of the decree before-mentioned.”


    So while he didn't actually say the doctrine was Satanic, he did say that the devil couldn't have done a better job if he had tried.
    Last edited by Rosenritter; September 8th, 2018 at 10:36 PM. Reason: Correction, quote was from Tilenus, also said to be the shared opinion of King James. Checking sources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    Correct.

    But in order to Hear God's Words which are Spiritual 1 Cor 2:13, the prerequisite is that men must be Born of the Spirit of God.

    Jesus said:

    John 8:43, 47

    43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

    47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


    You see, the Created thing has no say in the matter of what he is spiritually capable of hearing or seeing, but is totally dependent upon God's intervention.

    Prov. 20:12
    The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.

    God makes the Spiritual ear for Hearing, and the Spiritual eye for Seeing !

    Thus the only Faith that pleases God is a Fruit of the Spirit Given in New Birth Gal. 5:22, because we know from what Paul preached, that those in the flesh [not Born of the Spirit] cannot please God Rom. 8:8 !

    Also, God's Grace was not given to all mankind without exception, but only to His Elect Eph. 1:4-7 according to His Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph. 3:11 before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9 !
    Let's look at Ephesians 1:4-7:


    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

    6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;




    Verse 4
    is saying: He has chosen those who had faith in Him that we (Those of faith) will be holy and without blame before Him in love:

    Verse 5 is saying: That He predestined us (those of faith) to be an adopted 'Child of God' by means of placing our faith in His Son. Faith in Christ is the means by which we become a 'Child of God.' He has done this according to the good pleasure of His will.

    Verse 6 is saying: He has done this (predestined it) To the praise of the glory of His grace and by His grace He has accepted us. (People of faith)

    Verse 7 is saying: We have redemption through the shed blood of Christ on the cross and thereby receive, forgiveness of our sins according to the riches of His grace.

    These are promises that were prepared before the foundation of the world to those who place their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    You might say, God created a blueprint of how He was going to deal with those who were going to be brought into His family as an adopted, child of God. Basically, He made promises to His adopted children. It's all according to His GRACE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    Correct. But...
    There is no but. When it comes to salvation, the only thing that contributes is grace through faith.

    When someone replies to that with "but," you can safely ignore it all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Calvinists teach salvation exclusively by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

    Everything else is window dressing.

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    What, are you one now? Calvinist's teach a bit more than that Stripe. If you ain't one of the chosen then there's no way you could attain faith for a start...

    That's in basic terms but why convolute the waters...
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    “This doctrine is so horrible, that I am persuaded, if there were a council of unclean spirits assembled in hell, and their prince the devil were to put the question either to all of them in general, or to each in particular, to learn their opinion about the most likely means of stirring up the hatred of men against God their Maker; nothing could be invented by them that would be more efficacious for this purpose, or that could put a greater affront upon God’s love for mankind, than that infamous decree of the late Synod, and the decision of that detestable formulary, by which the far greater part of the human race are condemned to hell for no other reason, than the mere will of God, without any regard to sin; the necessity of sinning, as well as that of being damned, being fastened on them by that great nail of the decree before-mentioned.”


    So King James didn't actually say the doctrine was Satanic, but he did say that the devil couldn't have done a better job if he had tried.
    King James did not author this comment. It was a comment by Daniel Tilenus who later stated that the King agreed with him.
    Hearsay.

    It was directed at Calvinists whose doctrine, he said, made God the author of sin. This is, of course, untrue.
    Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    King James did not author this comment. It was a comment by Daniel Tilenus who later stated that the King agreed with him.
    Hearsay.

    It was directed at Calvinists whose doctrine, he said, made God the author of sin. This is, of course, untrue.
    Thank you for the clarification. I checked the footnote's source to here, and as you said, the original statement from from Daniel Tilenus:



    Just for clarification, did you have any source that would indicate that James did not support the statement as claimed?

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