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Thread: What is the aim of the Law of Moses?

  1. #31
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post
    To be convicted of sin is the greatest (and first !) blessing given on earth to HIS sinful elect.
    Being convicted of your sins is not a blessing, it is a curse.

    Deuteronomy 11:26-28
    26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
    27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:
    28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.


    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post
    HIS hate convicts HIS elect of their sin???? You are either really gone into some far out doctrine or you have no clue at all.
    I can't understand the logic behind your statement.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Being convicted of your sins is not a blessing, it is a curse.
    Which one was convicted of his sins and which one wasn't?:

    "Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted" (Lk.18:10-14).

  3. #33
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Which one was convicted of his sins and which one wasn't?:

    "Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted" (Lk.18:10-14).
    That depends on which definition of convicted you are using.

    convict
    1 : to prove or declare guilty of an offense, especially after a legal trial.
    2 : to impress with a sense of guilt.


    If you are convicted (declared guilty) in the Judgment, you are cursed.
    That is what will happen to the Pharisee.

    If you are convicted (impressed with a sense of guilt) by your conscience and it leads you to repentance, you are blessed.
    That is what happened with the publican.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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  5. #34
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    That depends on which definition of convicted you are using.

    convict
    1 : to prove or declare guilty of an offense, especially after a legal trial.
    2 : to impress with a sense of guilt.


    If you are convicted (declared guilty) in the Judgment, you are cursed.
    That is what will happen to the Pharisee.

    If you are convicted (impressed with a sense of guilt) by your conscience and it leads you to repentance, you are blessed.
    That is what happened with the publican.
    The law does both at the same time and the two cannot be separated. The law declares the one who commits the sin guilty and at the same time it impresses upon the sinner his guilt.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The law does both at the same time and the two cannot be separated. The law declares the one who commits the sin guilty and at the same time it impresses upon the sinner his guilt.
    The Law doesn't throw anyone into the lake of fire at the Judgment, the LORD does that.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    The Law doesn't throw anyone into the lake of fire at the Judgment, the LORD does that.

    "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works"
    (Rev.20:12).

  8. #37
    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Being convicted of your sins is not a blessing, it is a curse.I can't understand the logic behind your statement.
    It is only by conviction of sin that we seek repentance (or why give us the law to convict us of sin?) and it is HIS love for us that has HIM lead us to repentance... being led to repentance is certainly a blessing or we'd be in sin forever.
    I Champion GODís holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

  9. #38
    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Originally Posted by ttruscottbut the law which you heard for the beginning: Isaiah 40:21 Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood since the earth was founded?has never been abolished. Does this 'since the earth was founded' NOT define in the beginning??? May I just repeat this for you so you may tell me what it means??? Have you not understood since the earth was founded? If you don't think that we were there to understand, then what?


    In context, those verses were not about the Law, they were about God Himself and how you can't make an idol that can represent Him.
    Let's pretend that what we were told from the beginning since the earth was founded is not as important at this moment than the fact that IF we do not remember having heard what it was from the beginning when the earth was founded, we are subject to a chastising ridicule by the prophet...

    Just how crazy does Isaiah have to be to challenge us to remember what we were told from the beginning at the foundation of the earth what we can never have heard because (as so many believe) we had not been created yet?? Do you deny we heard anything then?

    I've never said that in 4000 years orthodoxy hasn't figured out a rational for every verse that denies our pre-conception existence, but I do deny that all the rationals are logical...
    I Champion GODís holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

  10. #39
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works"
    (Rev.20:12).
    Who is doing the judging in the verse?
    Is it the books or is it God?
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post
    Let's pretend that what we were told from the beginning since the earth was founded is not as important at this moment than the fact that IF we do not remember having heard what it was from the beginning when the earth was founded, we are subject to a chastising ridicule by the prophet...

    Just how crazy does Isaiah have to be to challenge us to remember what we were told from the beginning at the foundation of the earth what we can never have heard because (as so many believe) we had not been created yet?? Do you deny we heard anything then?
    The story of the creation has been retold many times "since" the foundation of the earth, and this is what was repeatedly told to each generation from the beginning of the foundation of the earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post
    I've never said that in 4000 years orthodoxy hasn't figured out a rational for every verse that denies our pre-conception existence, but I do deny that all the rationals are logical...
    The only reason to believe in a pre-conception existence for humans is the fables that claim humans have an eternal soul that exists without a body.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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