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Thread: NFL 2018 Season Starts Tonight

  1. #316
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    The Steelers defense in Super Bowl 9 did not allow the Vikings to score a point.
    Yes, but the Vikings did score a touchdown. Final Score:

    Steelers 16
    Vikings 6

    The Vikings made a touchdown but did not score on the extra point attempt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    That was a brutal game to watch, and Brady's performance did as little to advance his legend, as SB L did to advance Peyton's. In both cases, their teams won despite their QB's play and not because of it. The game really felt all the way through like the Pats' defense had a pillow over the Rams' face, and just kept applying gentle pressure until they stopped fighting.
    I think you have to credit their influence more than their play, though both played an important role in the victory. Brady looked like a rested and well prepared version of himself at home against the Chargers, but the next couple of games were progressively unkind. I think Brees faded at the end too. Father time may be catching them both, though Brady is a year farther down that road.

    Most boring game I can remember, SB wise, though I credit Bill with doing a heck of a job coaching and scheming.
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  3. #318
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Most boring game I can remember, SB wise, though I credit Bill with doing a heck of a job coaching and scheming.
    The rumor is that bill Bilicheat was able to spy on the Rams's practices leading up to the Super Bowl with the help of some wiz kids from MIT.

    Not!

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    Over 1500 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    I think you have to credit their influence more than their play, though both played an important role in the victory. Brady looked like a rested and well prepared version of himself at home against the Chargers, but the next couple of games were progressively unkind. I think Brees faded at the end too. Father time may be catching them both, though Brady is a year farther down that road.

    Most boring game I can remember, SB wise, though I credit Bill with doing a heck of a job coaching and scheming.
    I don't even think it was all that difficult. He knew that the Rams defense was undersized, and so they needed to make sure they made the Rams pay for that deficiency somehow. There's obvious ways to do that, when you have a strong offensive line, so long as you don't fall far behind them in points, which NE never did. You just keep getting first downs. Points don't even matter because you'll get them later, so long as you get yards and first downs, you make them pay for being undersized, a penalty that they can't afford to pay all game long, unlike a rightly sized defense, which could keep paying the penalty all game long, you don't play against that defense the same way as against the Rams. The strategy is very easy and guaranteed to work if you don't fall behind them in points, and NE never did. By the fourth quarter, the Rams defense was dead on their feet, compared to how they started the game. They gave up first downs easier, and eventually points. You could see them crumbling, and the game swirling away from them ultimately, and it was due to Belichick's scheme, but it did not take genius to devise that scheme, but it did require a bit of a genius to thwart it, and apparently McVay's not.
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  5. #320
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    The MVP of the Super Bowl got caught cheating:

    https://www.apnews.com/dd6afe53e49949649d48fc6b2d9ee313

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    I don't even think it was all that difficult. He knew that the Rams defense was undersized, and so they needed to make sure they made the Rams pay for that deficiency somehow.
    But the size of the team was never a state secret and yet no one shut them down like Bill managed.


    There's obvious ways to do that, when you have a strong offensive line, so long as you don't fall far behind them in points, which NE never did. You just keep getting first downs. Points don't even matter because you'll get them later, so long as you get yards and first downs, you make them pay for being undersized, a penalty that they can't afford to pay all game long, unlike a rightly sized defense, which could keep paying the penalty all game long, you don't play against that defense the same way as against the Rams. The strategy is very easy and guaranteed to work if you don't fall behind them in points, and NE never did. By the fourth quarter, the Rams defense was dead on their feet, compared to how they started the game. They gave up first downs easier, and eventually points. You could see them crumbling, and the game swirling away from them ultimately, and it was due to Belichick's scheme, but it did not take genius to devise that scheme, but it did require a bit of a genius to thwart it, and apparently McVay's not.
    One thing I've noticed about great coaches and players. They can make it look easy. But when they manage it year after year while almost no one else is doing it...

    That said, Brady should consider retiring in the off season. He was lucky that Bill kept them in the position for him to find a rally late, both against the Chiefs and the Rams. He won't manage that against the Chiefs again. You could see the difference in Mahomes once he stopped over thinking and settled into the game. It won't take him a half to manage that again. He's seen the best and he was a coin flip away from beating them and taking it to the Rams.
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    Over 1500 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    But the size of the team was never a state secret and yet no one shut them down like Bill managed.
    How many teams had dominant offensive lines like the Pats did this season? They were ranked 1st and 3rd in run and pass, or vice versa. They were big, strong men. All they had to do was keep the Rams defense on the field, and eventually they would wear down, due to their small size; and they did that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    One thing I've noticed about great coaches and players. They can make it look easy. But when they manage it year after year while almost no one else is doing it...
    But the thing is with NE during this run, it never looks easy in the SB. This win was a 10-point margin---far and away the biggest margin of victory in any of their six SB titles. And the closeness of all the contests, combined with NE's 2-to-1 advantage in coming out on top, is really the underscore on that remarkable year-to-year consistency.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    That said, Brady should consider retiring in the off season.
    As far as I can tell, he's considered it for the past two seasons anyway, so I'm sure he's considering this off-season as well. I've begun to be concerned that his arm is finally starting to show signs of age. He was never very mobile of course, and there's been some small amount of drop-off in his decision making possibly, but if his arm ceases to be a rocket launcher, that's probably going to spell the end for him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    He was lucky that Bill kept them in the position for him to find a rally late, both against the Chiefs and the Rams.
    And Bill's been lucky to have him.

    The more this has gone on, the more I'm seeing this team like Paul and John of the Beatles. You take either of them away, and they can't succeed anything like they can together. I take this statement on faith in the case of Brady, since he's never played in another system under another coach; but the 2008 season at 11-5 under Cassel, which was, with substantially the same team as the 16-0 2007 Pats, a reasonable measure of Brady's "wins above replacement" (from baseball) of about 5, which is pretty good, combined with Belichick's lack of success before Brady, does show that Belichick without Brady is definitely not the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    He won't manage that against the Chiefs again. You could see the difference in Mahomes once he stopped over thinking and settled into the game. It won't take him a half to manage that again. He's seen the best and he was a coin flip away from beating them and taking it to the Rams.
    There've been many quarterbacks who've fallen just slightly short of beating the Pats, and have faded away from being consistent championship contenders since then. Perhaps Maholmes can buck that trend. We'll see. I don't have any reason to wish him ill; unless his success depends upon him beating the Pats of course.
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    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    How many teams had dominant offensive lines like the Pats did this season? They were ranked 1st and 3rd in run and pass, or vice versa. They were big, strong men. All they had to do was keep the Rams defense on the field, and eventually they would wear down, due to their small size; and they did that.
    Well let's not confuse this with the old SB Dallas line. They're really good. But not, no one can touch Brady/no one can stop their run good. And good is always a combination of individual prowess and coaching.

    But the thing is with NE during this run, it never looks easy in the SB.
    Slimmest margins of victory you could imagine, on the whole. But I was commenting on the idea of how we distinguish position play.

    As far as I can tell, he's considered it for the past two seasons anyway, so I'm sure he's considering this off-season as well. I've begun to be concerned that his arm is finally starting to show signs of age. He was never very mobile of course, and there's been some small amount of drop-off in his decision making possibly, but if his arm ceases to be a rocket launcher, that's probably going to spell the end for him.
    And Bill's been lucky to have him.
    He looked like the lion in winter to me toward the end. It would be better for him to walk away with most of his glory intact, I think. But I suspect he's going to come back until he fails and has taken a little luster off the crown.

    The more this has gone on, the more I'm seeing this team like Paul and John of the Beatles. You take either of them away, and they can't succeed anything like they can together. I take this statement on faith in the case of Brady, since he's never played in another system under another coach; but the 2008 season at 11-5 under Cassel, which was, with substantially the same team as the 16-0 2007 Pats, a reasonable measure of Brady's "wins above replacement" (from baseball) of about 5, which is pretty good, combined with Belichick's lack of success before Brady, does show that Belichick without Brady is definitely not the same.
    Waaaaait a minute. No, you can't use the one perfect season as the marker there to give Brady a plus 5 any more than you should use the following 10 win season when Brady was back. And his coach took a backup who didn't produce elsewhere and made him look like Tom. To me, that should really settle the argument of who gets what share of the consideration.
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