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Thread: Is "soul sleep" a Scriptural doctrine?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Is there a spiritual body?
    yes .

    Joh_4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

    Rom_8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    Paul is with Jesus , Paul's body is in the ground awaiting the resurrection.
    When do we and Paul receive our spiritual body?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    When do we and Paul receive our spiritual body?
    when do you receive a soul ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    when do you receive a soul ?
    You don't receive a soul, you are created as a soul.

    Genesis 2:7 KJV
    (7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    You don't receive a soul, you are created as a soul.

    Genesis 2:7 KJV
    (7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
    Yep, soul is used as a "living being". We are living souls.

    Genesis 46:22 These are the sons of Rachel, which were born to Jacob: all the souls were fourteen.

    Acts 27:37 And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls.

    But we also have a soul. Part of the inner man, and we receive it when we are conceived in our mother's womb.

    Hebrews 4:12 [
    For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    1 Thessalonians 5:23
    And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    I am always amazed whenever people quote 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 without including 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
    13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


    We are discussing whether "soul sleep" is scriptural.
    Paul speaks of Christians that have already died by the time Paul is writing this letter.
    Paul says that they are asleep.
    I'm not dead when I'm asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    "who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past and they overthrow the faith of some." (2 Timothy 2:18)

    "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christís at His coming." (1 Corinthians 15:22-23)
    The resurrection refers to the body. Man is more than the tent in which he dwells.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Yep, soul is used as a "living being". We are living souls.
    Genesis 46:22 These are the sons of Rachel, which were born to Jacob: all the souls were fourteen.

    Acts 27:37 And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls.

    But we also have a soul. Part of the inner man, and we receive it when we are conceived in our mother's womb.
    Hebrews 4:12 [
    For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    1 Thessalonians 5:23
    And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    The best general rule to remember is the soul of man is the whole of man. Hebrews 4:12 is consistent with this, as the whole man can be separated from the spirit which also has a meaning of the breath of life. We see similar usage in Job and Revelation:

    Job 27:2-3 KJV
    (2) As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul;
    (3) All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

    Revelation 11:11 KJV
    (11) And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.


    The passage in 1 Thessalonians 5;23 does seem to use "spirit" in a different form; It may not mean "spirit of life" but could also mean any of a variety of meanings that is allowed by that word, including in the sense of a "meek and quiet spirit" (1 Peter 3:4) or "spirit of glory" (1 Peter 4:14) meaning that intangible spiritual part of ourselves that defines us. Regardless, the clear intent of the passage is that we are sanctified wholly, and these may not be so much separable independent parts but rather different angles or means of reference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I'm not dead when I'm asleep.
    John 11:11-14 KJV
    (11) These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
    (12) Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
    (13) Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
    (14) Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

    Sleep is an analogy for death that we can relate to because we see it every day, not the actual thing itself. Thus we would expect that death is more likened to sleep than waking, unconsciousness rather than consciousness, lack of perception and thought rather than wide eyes and an alert mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    The resurrection refers to the body. Man is more than the tent in which he dwells.
    My car is more than simply a mass of metal and glass and rubber, but watch how well it works if you remove the metal and glass and rubber.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    The best general rule to remember is the soul of man is the whole of man. Hebrews 4:12 is consistent with this, as the whole man can be separated from the spirit which also has a meaning of the breath of life. We see similar usage in Job and Revelation:
    Except you'll notice Heb. is speaking of the Word of God.

    Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    Nothing to do with the breath of life or being separated from the spirit at death.

    This verse in Hebrew is talking about how the Word of God "is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart". It's speaking of the Gospel and believing, and how the Word separates the flesh and it's lusts from the mind/will/emotions (soul) and the spirit (which is the innermost man by which we communicate with God). Reading the word shows us that man is body, soul and spirit...three distinct parts, and keeps us from being ruled by our flesh or soulish pleasures.

    Some say soul and spirit are the same inner man, but many say we are tripartite (as pictured by the Temple courts). Which is my belief.

    Ephesians 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    My car is more than simply a mass of metal and glass and rubber, but watch how well it works if you remove the metal and glass and rubber.
    Man is not a car. We were created in the image of GOD. God doesn't need a body to get things done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    The passage in 1 Thessalonians 5;23 does seem to use "spirit" in a different form; It may not mean "spirit of life" but could also mean any of a variety of meanings that is allowed by that word, including in the sense of a "meek and quiet spirit" (1 Peter 3:4) or "spirit of glory" (1 Peter 4:14) meaning that intangible spiritual part of ourselves that defines us. Regardless, the clear intent of the passage is that we are sanctified wholly, and these may not be so much separable independent parts but rather different angles or means of reference.
    Yes, spirit has more than one meaning, just as soul does. Man must commune with God through his spirit....spirit to SPIRIT.

    Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

    Mark 2:8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?

    1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    yes .

    Joh_4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

    Rom_8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
    I'd missed this. Amen, brother. Just what I was talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    John 11:11-14 KJV
    (11) These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
    (12) Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
    (13) Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
    (14) Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

    Sleep is an analogy for death that we can relate to because we see it every day, not the actual thing itself. Thus we would expect that death is more likened to sleep than waking, unconsciousness rather than consciousness, lack of perception and thought rather than wide eyes and an alert mind.
    That's because they can't see inside the tent.

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