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Thread: Is "soul sleep" a Scriptural doctrine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    Sounds suspiciously like reincarnation.

    What is the difference between Reincarnation and Resurrection?

    The Bible certainly mentions a notion of a resurrection, but this is different from reincarnation (or transmigration) in several ways. Reincarnation is a rebirth into a new body and a new form of existence that may be entirely different from one's previous life. For example, a human could get reincarnated as an animal such as a cow. The cow is a different kind of creature than a human. Even if you come back as another human, you are coming back as a different man or woman than the one you were before. The previous man or woman stays dead, and you are born as a new person with a different body and a distinct identity.

    On the other hand, in a resurrection, the human remains a human. Indeed, they remain the same human they were before. The Judeo-Christian notion of resurrection is a transformation of the body into an immortal form of the same body. There is a direct relationship between the physical body that dies and the body that physically rises to immortality. The body that dies is the exact body that is raised. It is made new in the sense that it is perfected and no longer subject to frailty and death, but it is still the same body. It is restoring life to the same physical being that has died.

    Learn to read what is written.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Are you trying to claim that everyone will be blotted out of the book and no names will be in the book of life at the Resurrection?
    Nope, but the Atonement goats have been replaced by the Lamb of God.

    "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus." (Romans 8:1)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Nope, but the Atonement goats have been replaced by the Lamb of God.

    "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus." (Romans 8:1)
    Those who are in Christ Jesus (new testament) have their names written in heaven with the rest of the people that feared the Lord (old testament).

    Luke 10:20
    20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.



    Philippians 4:3
    3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.



    Hebrews 12:23
    23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

    Learn to read what is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    No, souls are not created immortal.
    God must grant immortality to a soul in the Resurrection before it becomes immortal.
    No. God gives life after resurrection, or death. This has nothing to do with soul as an identity.

    "No soul" actually is an anti Christ doctrine with the advocate that "you can reject Jesus Christ by accepting an annihilation, or a short death".

    Matthew 25:46 (NIV2011)
    Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.


    Early fathers basically adapt the same Jewish concept of the Pharisees. You can't be more correct!

    http://coldcasechristianity.com/2018...ve-about-hell/

    The Early Church Fathers, with very few exceptions, agree with traditional views descriptions of Hell as a place of eternal, conscious torment:

    1. Hell is a place of judgment for those who have rejected God and denied Jesus as their Savior
    2. Hell is a place of separation from God
    3. Hell is a place of torment in which the rebellious are in anguish and pain
    4. Hell is a place where the rebellious are tormented forever and are conscious of this torment for all eternity (In fact, the eternal duration of their torment is often compared to the eternal duration of the reward of the saved)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
    The Early Church Fathers, with very few exceptions, agree with traditional views descriptions of Hell as a place of eternal, conscious torment:
    What is the penalty for sin?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
    No. God gives life after resurrection, or death. This has nothing to do with soul as an identity.

    "No soul" actually is an anti Christ doctrine with the advocate that "you can reject Jesus Christ by accepting an annihilation, or a short death".

    Matthew 25:46 (NIV2011)
    Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
    The anihilation will never be reversed after they are destroyed in the lake of fire after the Resurrection, therefore the one-time punishment lasts forever.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    What is the penalty for sin?
    Sin, like any other debt must be paid for.

    There are two options for satisfying the sin debt.

    One option is to ask our Father to charge it to Jesus Christ.

    The other option is to pay the debt ourselves through death.

    When a sinner is resurrected his debt has been paid. The person is now free of past sin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregoryN View Post
    I do - not - agree that the "soul sleep" viewpoint is Scriptural.

    Is "soul sleep" a Scriptural doctrine?
    no

    2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
    Are we immediately present with the Lord?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Are we immediately present with the Lord?
    If the dead know nothing, then the person that dies will not experience any time between death (absent from the body) and Resurrection (present with the Lord).
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Can it be demonstrated Biblically? Yes.

    Can it be refuted Biblically? Yes.

    Is the Bible a textbook of thanatology? Not so much.

    is this question an essential matter of faith? Nope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    If the dead know nothing, then the person that dies will not experience any time between death (absent from the body) and Resurrection (present with the Lord).
    Right you are. When a brain flatlines it is not conscious and is not processing inputs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Are we immediately present with the Lord?
    yes, immediately present with the Lord

    2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

    Php 1:23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.
    Php 1:24 But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.

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    Greetings GregoryN and way 2 go,
    Quote Originally Posted by GregoryN View Post
    I do - not - agree that the "soul sleep" viewpoint is Scriptural. Groups like JW's, Christadelphians, 7th Day Adventists, & some annihilationists i've encountered on forums believe in "soul sleep", whereas the historic Christian church has rejected the "soul sleep" viewpoint. Both sides present many verses allegedly supporting their POV re how they harmonize the Scriptures on this topic.
    I do not agree with the term soul sleep, as I believe that we are a living soul Genesis 2:7 and when we die we return to the dust Genesis 3:19, Daniel 12:2-3.
    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    yes, immediately present with the Lord
    Php 1:23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.
    Php 1:24 But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.
    When Paul faced death, he speaks of his departure in terms that speak of the return of Jesus Christ to establish the Kingdom, the resurrection and judgement, and being rewarded at that time, not going to heaven.
    2 Timothy 4:1,78 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregoryN View Post
    I do - not - agree that the "soul sleep" viewpoint is Scriptural.

    Groups like JW's, Christadelphians, 7th Day Adventists, & some annihilationists i've encountered on forums believe in "soul sleep", whereas the historic Christian church has rejected the "soul sleep" viewpoint. Both sides present many verses allegedly supporting their POV re how they harmonize the Scriptures on this topic.

    One opinion states:



    https://spencer.gear.dyndns.org/2007...-a-refutation/

    State of the Dead


    Psalm 90:3-6

    You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men." For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night. You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew.

    Job 7:21

    "Why then do You not pardon my transgression And take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

    Job 14:10-12

    "But man dies and lies prostrate Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up, So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

    Psalm 13:3

    Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,

    Daniel 12:2

    "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

    Matthew 9:24

    He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.

    Mark 5:39

    And entering in, He said to them, "Why make a commotion and weep? The child has not died, but is asleep."

    Luke 8:52-53

    Now they were all weeping and lamenting for her; but He said, "Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him, knowing that she had died.

    1 Kings 2:10

    Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

    Deuteronomy 31:16

    The LORD said to Moses, "Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.

    2 Samuel 7:12

    "When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

    1 Kings 11:43

    And Solomon slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of his father David, and his son Rehoboam reigned in his place.

    1 Kings 14:20

    The time that Jeroboam reigned was twenty-two years; and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his place.

    1 Kings 16:6

    And Baasha slept with his fathers and was buried in Tirzah, and Elah his son became king in his place.

    1 Kings 22:50

    And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers and was buried with his fathers in the city of his father David, and Jehoram his son became king in his place.

    2 Kings 14:16

    So Jehoash slept with his fathers and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son became king in his place.

    2 Kings 15:7

    And Azariah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David, and Jotham his son became king in his place.

    2 Kings 16:20

    So Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David; and his son Hezekiah reigned in his place.

    2 Kings 20:21

    So Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and Manasseh his son became king in his place.

    2 Kings 21:18

    And Manasseh slept with his fathers and was buried in the garden of his own house, in the garden of Uzza, and Amon his son became king in his place.

    Revelation 14:13

    And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."


    John 11:11-14

    This He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep." The disciples then said to Him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep.

    Acts 7:60

    Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.

    1 Corinthians 15:6

    After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

    John 5:28-29

    "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

    Job 14:13-15

    "Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, That You would set a limit for me and remember me! "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait Until my change comes. "You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands.

    Psalm 17:15

    As for me, I shall behold Your face in righteousness; I will be satisfied with Your likeness when I awake.

    Isaiah 26:19

    Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.


    Luke 16:22-23

    "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

    1 Corinthians 15:20

    But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

    But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

    Jeremiah 51:57

    "I will make her princes and her wise men drunk, Her governors, her prefects and her mighty men, That they may sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up," Declares the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.


    Psalm 7:3-5

    O LORD my God, if I have done this, If there is injustice in my hands, If I have rewarded evil to my friend, Or have plundered him who without cause was my adversary, Let the enemy pursue my soul and overtake it; And let him trample my life down to the ground And lay my glory in the dust. Selah.

    Psalm 76:5

    The stouthearted were plundered, They sank into sleep; And none of the warriors could use his hands.

    Jeremiah 51:39

    "When they become heated up, I will serve them their banquet And make them drunk, that they may become jubilant And may sleep a perpetual sleep And not wake up," declares the LORD.

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