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Thread: Is "soul sleep" a Scriptural doctrine?

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    Is "soul sleep" a Scriptural doctrine?

    I do - not - agree that the "soul sleep" viewpoint is Scriptural.

    Groups like JW's, Christadelphians, 7th Day Adventists, & some annihilationists i've encountered on forums believe in "soul sleep", whereas the historic Christian church has rejected the "soul sleep" viewpoint. Both sides present many verses allegedly supporting their POV re how they harmonize the Scriptures on this topic.

    One opinion states:


    (1) Unbelievers:

    In hell are conscious and in torment (Luke 16:23);
    Are “under punishment [after death] until the day of judgment” (2 Peter 2:9);
    (2) Believers:

    Are immediately in Paradise at death (Luke 23:43);
    Long for a heavenly dwelling (2 Cor. 5:2);

    Are away from the body [at death] and are at home with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:8);

    Deaths are gain (Phil. 1:21) and they depart at death to “be with Christ” (Phil. 1:23);

    Who are martyred souls “cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord . . .” (Rev. 6:9-11). They were conscious after death so that they could speak to the Lord.

    ...Dr. Morey (2006) provides these verses as “the primary NT texts that refute soul sleep”: Matt. 22:23-33; Lk. 16:19-31; Lk. 23:43; Acts 7:59; 2 Cor. 5:1-10; Phil 1:21-25; Heb. 12:18-24.
    https://spencer.gear.dyndns.org/2007...-a-refutation/

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    No!
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    No!
    Tell that to Robert Pate:

    Robert's psychopannychia:


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If a persons spirit is already in heaven then why would there be a resurrection?

    There is a lot of controversy concerning this.

    The way I see it is, the whole person goes into the ground and the whole person is resurrected.

    The Christian does not really die. He falls asleep until the resurrection.
    Sigh.

    AMR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Tell that to Robert Pate:
    Do you have a reasoned answer to Tate's question other that "sigh"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregoryN View Post
    Is "soul sleep" a Scriptural doctrine?
    Did Paul believe in soul sleep?

    "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:51)

    Did Jesus believe in soul sleep?

    "These things He said, and after that He said to them, 'Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.'" (John 11:11)

    Sleep is a term used for those who no longer breathe but have eternal life. In a spiritual sense they don't die.

    Flesh dies, but spirit does not die.

    "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you." (Romans 8:9)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregoryN View Post
    Do you have a reasoned answer to Tate's question other that "sigh"?
    Answer:

    Man was created as a dichotomous being, body and soul.

    At the resurrection to come both will be once again joined as they were originally intended to be for all believers, that is, in the glorified state Adam would have achieved had he obeyed during his probationary period under the Covenant of Works.

    BTW, it is "Pate" and "other than".

    AMR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Answer:

    Man was created as a dichotomous being, body and soul.

    At the resurrection to come both will be once again joined as they were originally intended to be for all believers, that is, in the glorified state Adam would have achieved had he obeyed during his probationary period under the Covenant of Works.

    BTW, it is "Pate" and "other than".

    AMR
    Right you are.

    Here's how I have answered the likes of Mr. Pate's query:

    "In Anglicanism, scholars such as the Bishop of Durham N. T. Wright,[23] have defended the primacy of the resurrection in Christian faith. Interviewed by Time in 2008, senior Anglican bishop and theologian N. T. Wright spoke of “the idea of bodily resurrection that people deny when they talk about their ‘souls going to Heaven,'" adding: “I've often heard people say, ‘I'm going to heaven soon, and I won't need this stupid body there, thank goodness.’ That's a very damaging distortion, all the more so for being unintentional.” Instead, Wright explains: “In the Bible we are told that you die, and enter an intermediate state." This is "conscious," but "compared to being bodily alive, it will be like being asleep." This will be followed by resurrection into new bodies, he says. "Our culture is very interested in life after death, but the New Testament is much more interested in what I've called the life after life after death."

    "...According to the Summa Theologica, spiritual beings that have been restored to glorified bodies will have the following basic qualities:

    Impassibility (incorruptible / painless) — immunity from death and pain
    Subtility (permeability) — freedom from restraint by matter
    Agility — obedience to spirit with relation to movement and space (the ability to move through space and time with the speed of thought)
    Clarity — resplendent beauty of the soul manifested in the body (as when Jesus was transfigured on Mount Tabor)[27]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurr...n_Christianity

    "In the recreated new heavens and new earth, of which we read in Revelation, it would be most weird indeed if the pinnacle of creation—the human being—in which the lower material and the higher spiritual realms were united in one, was not fully resurrected. To be half of what we once were, disembodied spirits flitting about would indeed seem odd. The resurrection of the body affirms its original goodness. It’s not a matter of heavenly necessity, but it is most fitting for the plan of redemption.

    "But there is a second answer to this question and it addresses each of us on a more personal level. In the Summa, Aquinas writes that the soul without the body is in an unnatural state. To deprive it of a body is to deprive it of its perfection in nature. Citing Job 19:25-26, Aquinas suggests that the body is a sort of clothing or adornment for the soul. Again, the thinking here is rooted in a sense of beauty and fittingness, not bare necessities."

    continued at:

    https://catholicexchange.com/resurre...et-bodies-back

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Man was created as a dichotomous being, body and soul.
    Humans do not have a soul, they are a soul.

    "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being." (Genesis 2:7)

    If a person is breathing he is a living soul. Without breath he is a dead soul.

    For a dead soul the person's spirit returns to God who gave it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregoryN View Post
    Is "soul sleep" a Scriptural doctrine?

    Christian mortalism incorporates the belief that the human soul is not naturally immortal; and may include the belief that the soul is uncomprehending during the time between bodily death and resurrection, known as the intermediate state. "Soul sleep" is an often pejorative term so the more neutral term "materialism" was also used in the nineteenth century, and "Christian mortalism" since the 1970s.


    The truth is that the human soul is not naturally immortal.

    "Soul sleep" is the idea that an immortal human soul is in an uncomprehending state during the time between bodily death and resurrection.

    Every doctrine that rely upon the idea that the human soul is immortal (including "Soul sleep") is a false doctrine.

    The soul is the person, not something else.
    The spirit is not the soul, it is the life-force that animates the body to create the soul.
    When the body dies, and the life-force leaves the body, the person/soul no longer exists.

    During the Resurrection, the body is created anew and the person/soul exists once again.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post

    Christian mortalism incorporates the belief that the human soul is not naturally immortal; and may include the belief that the soul is uncomprehending during the time between bodily death and resurrection, known as the intermediate state. "Soul sleep" is an often pejorative term so the more neutral term "materialism" was also used in the nineteenth century, and "Christian mortalism" since the 1970s.


    The truth is that the human soul is not naturally immortal.

    "Soul sleep" is the idea that an immortal human soul is in an uncomprehending state during the time between bodily death and resurrection.

    Every doctrine that rely upon the idea that the human soul is immortal (including "Soul sleep") is a false doctrine.

    The soul is the person, not something else.
    The spirit is not the soul, it is the life-force that animates the body to create the soul.
    When the body dies, and the life-force leaves the body, the person/soul no longer exists.

    During the Resurrection, the body is created anew and the person/soul exists once again.
    Soul must be immortal as a technicality.

    We need a permanent ID in order to live an eternity. In computer database world, it is the unique key of a unique record. Our body can't serve as a valid ID because it decays. Who we are will be discontinued along with the decay of our body. Only God knows who we are under the circumstance but not everyone else. This however means a discontinue in valid witnessing.

    A body serves as an image for humans to reckon each other. However, angels don't rely on bodies to identify a human. When we are given a perfect body, you may no longer reckon who Stephen Hawking is (provided that he's in Heaven). The angels however can witness who Stephen Hawking is by his soul.

    Historically, immortal soul is a Jewish concept adapted by the Jews in majority under the influence of the Pharisees (enforcers of both the written and oral laws). Jesus Himself never tried to correct those fundamental Pharisaic concepts. Instead He extends those concepts in His parables.

    That said. Believers will be put to a sleep and have no perception of time such that they die at this moment, they see the final judgment the next moment. Paul described it as a sleep however the wicked can never enter. Because God ever spoke the oath that "they can never enter my rest". Those who entered God's rest (the saved) are said to be in paradise. Hades is a hell where you are in paradise when put to a sleep by God.

    Psalm 139:8 (NRSV)
    If I ascend to heaven, you are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, you are there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
    Soul must be immortal as a technicality.
    "Then the serpent said to the woman, 'You will not surely die.'" (Satan)

    "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Paul)

    Eternal life is a gift.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
    Soul must be immortal as a technicality.
    No, souls are not created immortal.
    God must grant immortality to a soul in the Resurrection before it becomes immortal.

    1 Corinthians 15:53
    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
    We need a permanent ID in order to live an eternity. In computer database world, it is the unique key of a unique record. Our body can't serve as a valid ID because it decays. Who we are will be discontinued along with the decay of our body. Only God knows who we are under the circumstance but not everyone else.
    There is a database that contains the information needed to recreate human souls in the Resurrection.

    Revelation 20:12-15
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


    The book of life has the information about the people that will be given immortality.
    The names in the book of life can be blotted out before the Resurrection.

    Exodus 32:33
    33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

    Learn to read what is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post

    Exodus 32:33
    33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

    Who hasn't sinned?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Who hasn't sinned?
    Are you trying to claim that everyone will be blotted out of the book and no names will be in the book of life at the Resurrection?

    The Bible tells who will get their names written in the book.

    Malachi 3:16-18
    16 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.
    17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
    18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.


    The Bible tells who will not get blotted out from the book.

    Revelation 3:5
    5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

    Learn to read what is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post

    Christian mortalism incorporates the belief that the human soul is not naturally immortal; and may include the belief that the soul is uncomprehending during the time between bodily death and resurrection, known as the intermediate state. "Soul sleep" is an often pejorative term so the more neutral term "materialism" was also used in the nineteenth century, and "Christian mortalism" since the 1970s.


    The truth is that the human soul is not naturally immortal.

    "Soul sleep" is the idea that an immortal human soul is in an uncomprehending state during the time between bodily death and resurrection.

    Every doctrine that rely upon the idea that the human soul is immortal (including "Soul sleep") is a false doctrine.

    The soul is the person, not something else.
    The spirit is not the soul, it is the life-force that animates the body to create the soul.
    When the body dies, and the life-force leaves the body, the person/soul no longer exists.

    During the Resurrection, the body is created anew and the person/soul exists once again.
    Sounds suspiciously like reincarnation.
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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