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Thread: Omniscience means fatalism.

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    No, I'm not. If God knows something in advance then that isn't infringing on someone's will.
    Does knowing everything in advance infringe on God's ability to choose differently?
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Does knowing everything in advance infringe on God's ability to choose differently?
    No.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Does knowing everything in advance infringe on God's ability to choose differently?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    No.
    If God absolutely knew everything that would happen, there is no way for Him to do anything except what He knows He will do, therefore omniscience would infringe upon His ability to choose differently.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Praise God, He raised me up in Christ Jesus.
    And, HOW did He do that? Testimony, please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    You bold it as though it's an apocryphal book.
    Paul teaches predestination, election and God's choosing.
    Better yet, from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22 we see God's sovereign choosing over the affairs of men.
    Grace is: God giving to us what we do not deserve.
    The Gospel of the grace of God is what the Apostle Paul calls it. Acts 20:24 "But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Believing is a work of God.
    God must make the person alive before the person can believe. There is no other way.
    There's another way. The truth is the answer and it's not found in Calvinism. It's found in 'The Gospel of the grace of God' as the Apostle Paul calls it. Acts 20:24 "But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    And, HOW did He do that? Testimony, please?
    By His grace.
    With no effort from myself, God reached down and made me alive in Christ.
    My life verse: Galatians 2:20
    I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

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    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    If God absolutely knew everything that would happen, there is no way for Him to do anything except what He knows He will do, therefore omniscience would infringe upon His ability to choose differently.
    And a thousand years is like a day.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    There's another way. The truth is the answer and it's not found in Calvinism. It's found in 'The Gospel of the grace of God' as the Apostle Paul calls it. Acts 20:24 "But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God."
    The gospel of grace is shown in Paul's conversion.
    A terrorist on his way to round up and kill Christians is made alive in Christ by no effort of his own on the road to Damascus.
    God giving to Paul what he did not deserve.
    It's amazing grace that saves a wretch like me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    The gospel of grace is shown in Paul's conversion.
    A terrorist on his way to round up and kill Christians is made alive in Christ by no effort of his own on the road to Damascus.
    God giving to Paul what he did not deserve.
    It's amazing grace that saves a wretch like me.
    All of those who place their faith in Christ are saved by God's Grace/unmerited mercy and forgiveness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    By His grace.
    With no effort from myself, God reached down and made me alive in Christ.
    My life verse: Galatians 2:20
    I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
    You had to place your faith in Christ's death and resurrection in order to receive forgiveness of your sins, baptism into the Body of Christ (by the Holy Spirit) and the sealing, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and the promise of eternal life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    All of those who place their faith in Christ are saved by God's Grace/unmerited mercy and forgiveness.
    Indeed, if God did not graciously save them, they could not place their faith in God.
    Do you see how that works?
    Grace is given to the hopeless by the one who has the power to save. The hopeless cannot conjure up hope when they are hopeless. God must give them hope. That act of God in making a person alive in Christ is purely and totally all God's action. You are the recipient of grace, not the participant in grace. Do you comprehend this truth or do you insist that you do the work (which means you nullify grace)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    You had to place your faith in Christ's death and resurrection in order to receive forgiveness of your sins, baptism into the Body of Christ (by the Holy Spirit) and the sealing, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and the promise of eternal life.
    Did Paul have to do that before God saved him on the road to Damascus? If so, then Paul was saved by his own works.
    God does the work of saving you. He brings you to repentance as His child (no rebel ever repents on his own). He gives you faith to believe. He forgives your sins. He baptizes you into Christ. He seals you with the Holy Spirit. He gives eternal life.
    All this you receive by His grave and His grace alone. You, like me, are a wretched, rebellious, sinner who has nothing good to offer. You are a filthy rag, worthy of being disposed of. Never forget what God has done for you and never, ever try to take credit by claiming you "willed" yourself into God's salvation while God passively watched.
    How pathetic and God dishonor in is free-will philosophy. Yuck. I spent 30 years in that cess pool of man-centered thinking. Thank God, even in the midst of my prideful imagination that I chose to believe God...God still loved me and chose me anyway. The great thing about sanctification is that God removes these obstacles over time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Did Paul have to do that before God saved him on the road to Damascus? If so, then Paul was saved by his own works.
    God does the work of saving you. He brings you to repentance as His child (no rebel ever repents on his own). He gives you faith to believe. He forgives your sins. He baptizes you into Christ. He seals you with the Holy Spirit. He gives eternal life.
    All this you receive by His grave and His grace alone. You, like me, are a wretched, rebellious, sinner who has nothing good to offer. You are a filthy rag, worthy of being disposed of. Never forget what God has done for you and never, ever try to take credit by claiming you "willed" yourself into God's salvation while God passively watched.
    How pathetic and God dishonor in is free-will philosophy. Yuck. I spent 30 years in that cess pool of man-centered thinking. Thank God, even in the midst of my prideful imagination that I chose to believe God...God still loved me and chose me anyway. The great thing about sanctification is that God removes these obstacles over time.
    It sounds like your CHANGE OVER has made you: pleasant, loving, kind, humble, mannerly, incapable of anger and sarcasm, unable to reply with name calling, sentimental, forgiving, gentle, happy, joyful, etc, etc. Nobody would ever think you might not be a True believer.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Grosnick Marowbe For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (August 20th, 2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Indeed, if God did not graciously save them, they could not place their faith in God.
    Do you see how that works?
    Grace is given to the hopeless by the one who has the power to save. The hopeless cannot conjure up hope when they are hopeless. God must give them hope. That act of God in making a person alive in Christ is purely and totally all God's action. You are the recipient of grace, not the participant in grace. Do you comprehend this truth or do you insist that you do the work (which means you nullify grace)?
    Sounds a wee bit like John Calvin, himself. Oh, say it ain't so.

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Grosnick Marowbe For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (August 20th, 2018)

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