Omniscience means fatalism.

[glorydaz]

Sounds like you're a naturalistic atheist.

I'm simply pointing out that naturalistic atheism teaches the fatalism stryper brought up.

Oh, I took what you said as being directed at Stripe's personal belief....not recognizing the satire.

[Arthur Brain]

Even if God knew everything it wouldn't mean that people are "fated" to act. It's just foreknowledge of what will happen.

[ok doser]

Even if God knew everything it wouldn't mean that people are "fated" to act. It's just foreknowledge of what will happen.

[glorydaz]

Even if God knew everything it wouldn't mean that people are "fated" to act. It's just foreknowledge of what will happen.

Then you're an open theist.

[glorydaz]

Are puppets fated to act?

[ok doser]

Should God have to limit His omniscience?

I think this comes back to a popular topic here back in the day - the nature of time, the way we experience it linearly, and the possibility (probability?) that God experiences it differently.

[Arthur Brain]

Then you're an open theist.

Well, it can get complicated but unless there's direct involvement going on then foreknowledge of how someone is going to act etc is simply knowing the future. Say you wake up at fourteen minutes past seven in the morning and make a coffee. Okay, you're "fated" to wake up at that time and make a coffee but your decisions aren't being influenced or manipulated.

[glorydaz]

Well, it can get complicated but unless there's direct involvement going on then foreknowledge of how someone is going to act etc is simply knowing the future. Say you wake up at fourteen minutes past seven in the morning and make a coffee. Okay, you're "fated" to wake up at that time and make a coffee but your decisions aren't being influenced or manipulated.

Nah....You've left God out of your reasoning.

Oh. Are you an atheist?

[Arthur Brain]

Nah....You've left God out of your reasoning.

Oh. Are you an atheist?

No, I'm not. If God knows something in advance then that isn't infringing on someone's will.

[ok doser]

Are you an atheist?

[ok doser]

No, I'm not. If God knows something in advance then that isn't infringing on someone's will.

if God knows you're going to post something excruciatingly retarded later this evening, is there anything you can do to avoid it?

[glorydaz]

No, I'm not. If God knows something in advance then that isn't infringing on someone's will.

Which seems to be the dilemma we're discussing. How that can be....

[Arthur Brain]

Which seems to be the dilemma we're discussing. How that can be....

Not sure how it's even a dilemma. Simply knowing in advance how someone is going to act isn't manipulating them into an act by association.

[glorydaz]

Not sure how it's even a dilemma. Simply knowing in advance how someone is going to act isn't manipulating them into an act by association.

An act "by association"? What does that mean?

[Arthur Brain]

An act "by association"? What does that mean?

I meant in association with foreknowledge. Knowing the future is just that, it's not manipulating anyone into whatever act they do.