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Thread: The pride of the freewiller and denial of Grace salvation !

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    The pride of the freewiller and denial of Grace salvation !

    As we all know there are many who teach erroneously that the Lord Jesus Christ died for everyone without exception [which the scripture never states] and that now its up to the sinner to repent of their sins and accept Christ as your saviour and you will get saved, that act of yours secures unto you your salvation with God. I know there may be some variations here and there as to what the sinner may have to do but the premise is the same, the sinner must do something to secure unto themselves salvation.

    Now this false teaching fosters pride and self righteousness in the sinner because it takes Salvation out of the sole doing of the Person and Work of Jesus Christ wherein by that He secures the Salvation for everyone He lived and died and instead puts it into the hands of the will and or decision of the individual sinner. That isn't the Gospel of Jesus Christ !

    Secondly it promotes self righteousness because the sinner now believes that it was something in the sinner themselves that made the difference between saved and lost. It was some virtue of good, a behavior, a decision they had that separated them from other like sinners that caused God to save them. It means, though it will be denied, that some sinners are saved because they're less sinful than others by nature, or they are less dead in trespasses and sins, or they were less rebellious and less stubborn than others, or they were more gentle and obedient and lest stubborn, with this in mind, such thinking nullify s or cancels out Salvation by Grace. It takes Glory and Honor from Christ and promotes pride and self righteousness in the sinner and gives them reason to boast.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    As we all know there are many who teach erroneously that the Lord Jesus Christ died for everyone without exception [which the scripture never states]
    Dear beloved57:

    "He is the propitiation for our sins;

    and not for ours ONLY,

    BUT ALSO


    for the whole world."

    https://www.biblestudytools.com/1-john/2-2-compare.html

    Yes, beloved57, He is the hilasmos of the holos!

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    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    As we all know there are many who teach erroneously that the Lord Jesus Christ died for everyone without exception


    But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:8-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...9&version=NKJV

    Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness.If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.” - John 3:10-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...1&version=NKJV

    For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. - 1 Timothy 4:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...0&version=NKJV

    Will provide more if needed.

    Watch now as B57 (and others) uses verses such as Matthew 26:28, John 17:9, Acts 20:28, etc.

    [which the scripture never states]
    Sure it does. See above.

    and that now its up to the sinner to repent of their sins
    Except that's not what most of us open theists believe.

    All a sinner has to do is recognize he's a sinner and humble himself before God, and acknowledge that he can't save himself, but that God can. Then he can accept the free gift of salvation offered by Christ.

    and accept Christ as your saviour and you will get saved, that act of yours secures unto you your salvation with God.
    How much of an action is it for a bride to say "I do" to the groom, when he has done all the work already?

    I know there may be some variations here and there as to what the sinner may have to do but the premise is the same, the sinner must do something to secure unto themselves salvation.
    Not sure what set of beliefs you're going after here, but it isn't those who are open-theists.

    Now this false teaching fosters pride and self righteousness in the sinner because it takes Salvation out of the sole doing of the Person and Work of Jesus Christ wherein by that He secures the Salvation for everyone He lived and died and instead puts it into the hands of the will and or decision of the individual sinner. That isn't the Gospel of Jesus Christ!


    Secondly it promotes self righteousness because the sinner now believes that it was something in the sinner themselves that made the difference between saved and lost. It was some virtue of good, a behavior, a decision they had that separated them from other like sinners that caused God to save them. It means, though it will be denied, that some sinners are saved because they're less sinful than others by nature, or they are less dead in trespasses and sins, or they were less rebellious and less stubborn than others, or they were more gentle and obedient and lest stubborn, with this in mind, such thinking nullify s or cancels out Salvation by Grace. It takes Glory and Honor from Christ and promotes pride and self righteousness in the sinner and gives them reason to boast.
    So because we believe that God did all the work already to provide salvation to those who will just accept it, it takes glory and honor from God?

    God thinks otherwise.

    Far more glory and honor for God to do the work himself and have people love him unconditionally, just as He loved them!

    God wants all men to come to him. Yet, just like it would be wrong for a man to force himself upon a woman, it would be wrong for God to force Himself upon those who reject Him.

    God is capable. You think that those who reject a man made doctrine (namely "TULIP") make God out to be impotent, and incapable. That is incorrect.

    If anything, we believe God to be MORE THAN capable, and MORE sovereign than you do, and in addition, living, personal, relational, good, and loving.

    God is capable of working around those who reject Him. He is sovereign over all, but delegates authority to those under Him. He is a living God, He does what pleases Him, but is able to adapt to changes in the circumstances, because he's not a stone or wood idol that cannot do anything. He is a personal God, because for all of eternity past, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost have fellowshipped with each other, and have never wronged each other, and because He made man to form a new relationship, and then made woman, so that man would have someone else to have a relationship with. He is good, because as stated above, the three persons of the trinity have never wronged each other, and He will never violate His own will, and all of his judgments are just, never arbitrary. And He is loving, and to show that love, He sent His only begotten son to die on the cross for all of His creation, so that, if they wish to live with Him for all of eternity, they can, but even if they don't, He will allow them to reject Him, and be separated from Him for all of eternity.

    Those are God's biblical attributes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    the sinner must do something to secure unto themselves salvation.
    That is what the Bible teaches.
    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Now this false teaching fosters pride and self righteousness in the sinner
    It doesn't foster pride and self righteousness because the "something" that the sinners must do is humble themselves in the sight of the Lord.

    James 4:10
    10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    That is what the Bible teaches.

    It doesn't foster pride and self righteousness because the "something" that the sinners must do is humble themselves in the sight of the Lord.

    James 4:10
    10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
    Yeah pride and self righteousness. I was more humble than the other people. Boasting
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Yeah pride and self righteousness. I was more humble than the other people. Boasting
    Your words give away the evil in your heart.


    Luke 16:15
    15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Your words give away the evil in your heart.


    Luke 16:15
    15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
    Im saved says you because i humbled myself. Pride and boasting
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Im saved says you because i humbled myself. Pride and boasting
    You are thinking like the Pharisee in the parable, demanding that God acknowledge the good you do.


    Luke 18:9-14
    9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
    10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
    11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
    12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
    13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
    14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.



    You cannot understand what was in the publican's heart when he was too ashamed to look up and desperately hoped that God would be merciful towards him without any expectation that God would.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    You are thinking like the Pharisee in the parable, demanding that God acknowledge the good you do.


    Luke 18:9-14
    9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
    10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
    11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
    12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
    13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
    14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.



    You cannot understand what was in the publican's heart when he was too ashamed to look up and desperately hoped that God would be merciful towards him without any expectation that God would.
    See Christ doesnt make the difference in ones salvation according to you, your humility does. Thats self righteusess
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    See Christ doesnt make the difference in ones salvation according to you, your humility does. Thats self righteusess
    The truth is not in you.

    But, those people that read and understand the Bible know the truth.

    Isaiah 57:15
    15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    The truth is not in you.

    But, those people that read and understand the Bible know the truth.

    Isaiah 57:15
    15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
    Your pride and self righteousness is exposed.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Your pride and self righteousness is exposed.
    I have pride in a loving savior who rejects self-righteousness and accepts humility.

    You despise Him for His choices to do that.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    As we all know there are many who teach erroneously that the Lord Jesus Christ died for everyone without exception [which the scripture never states] and that now its up to the sinner to repent of their sins and accept Christ as your saviour and you will get saved, that act of yours secures unto you your salvation with God. I know there may be some variations here and there as to what the sinner may have to do but the premise is the same, the sinner must do something to secure unto themselves salvation.

    Now this false teaching fosters pride and self righteousness in the sinner because it takes Salvation out of the sole doing of the Person and Work of Jesus Christ wherein by that He secures the Salvation for everyone He lived and died and instead puts it into the hands of the will and or decision of the individual sinner. That isn't the Gospel of Jesus Christ !

    Secondly it promotes self righteousness because the sinner now believes that it was something in the sinner themselves that made the difference between saved and lost. It was some virtue of good, a behavior, a decision they had that separated them from other like sinners that caused God to save them. It means, though it will be denied, that some sinners are saved because they're less sinful than others by nature, or they are less dead in trespasses and sins, or they were less rebellious and less stubborn than others, or they were more gentle and obedient and lest stubborn, with this in mind, such thinking nullify s or cancels out Salvation by Grace. It takes Glory and Honor from Christ and promotes pride and self righteousness in the sinner and gives them reason to boast.

    Exactly Brother ! The freewillers deny Salvation by God's Grace alone Eph. 2:8-9 for those Christ died for as their Surety Saviour Heb. 7:22 before the World began 2 Tim. 1:9, and insist that a man's cooperation in his own salvation is essential to becoming saved from sin, i.e. his own acts self-righteousness of faith / believing, obeying, repenting, etc., which fosters pride in the flesh Rom. 8:8 and denies the saving efficacy of Christ's Blood to save all His Seed for whom it was shed Is. 53:10 !
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    If you actually read 1 John, you realize that John is not teaching universalism at all. He is declaring that Jesus propitiation is not just for that small group of believers, but for believers throughout the whole world. I will let the rest of 1 John 2 make the case for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    Dear beloved57:

    "He is the propitiation for our sins;

    and not for ours ONLY,

    BUT ALSO


    for the whole world."

    https://www.biblestudytools.com/1-john/2-2-compare.html

    Yes, beloved57, He is the hilasmos of the holos!
    1 John 2:1-24
    [1]My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.
    [2]He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world.
    [3]And we can be sure that we know him if we obey his commandments.
    [4]If someone claims, “I know God,” but doesn’t obey God’s commandments, that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.
    [5]But those who obey God’s word truly show how completely they love him. That is how we know we are living in him.
    [6]Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Jesus did.
    [7]Dear friends, I am not writing a new commandment for you; rather it is an old one you have had from the very beginning. This old commandment—to love one another—is the same message you heard before.
    [8]Yet it is also new. Jesus lived the truth of this commandment, and you also are living it. For the darkness is disappearing, and the true light is already shining.
    [9]If anyone claims, “I am living in the light,” but hates a fellow believer, that person is still living in darkness.
    [10]Anyone who loves a fellow believer is living in the light and does not cause others to stumble.
    [11]But anyone who hates a fellow believer is still living and walking in darkness. Such a person does not know the way to go, having been blinded by the darkness.
    [12]I am writing to you who are God’s children because your sins have been forgiven through Jesus.
    [13]I am writing to you who are mature in the faith because you know Christ, who existed from the beginning. I am writing to you who are young in the faith because you have won your battle with the evil one.
    [14]I have written to you who are God’s children because you know the Father. I have written to you who are mature in the faith because you know Christ, who existed from the beginning. I have written to you who are young in the faith because you are strong. God’s word lives in your hearts, and you have won your battle with the evil one.
    [15]Do not love this world nor the things it offers you, for when you love the world, you do not have the love of the Father in you.
    [16]For the world offers only a craving for physical pleasure, a craving for everything we see, and pride in our achievements and possessions. These are not from the Father, but are from this world.
    [17]And this world is fading away, along with everything that people crave. But anyone who does what pleases God will live forever.
    [18]Dear children, the last hour is here. You have heard that the Antichrist is coming, and already many such antichrists have appeared. From this we know that the last hour has come.
    [19]These people left our churches, but they never really belonged with us; otherwise they would have stayed with us. When they left, it proved that they did not belong with us.
    [20]But you are not like that, for the Holy One has given you his Spirit, and all of you know the truth.
    [21]So I am writing to you not because you don’t know the truth but because you know the difference between truth and lies.
    [22]And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ. Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.
    [23]Anyone who denies the Son doesn’t have the Father, either. But anyone who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
    [24]So you must remain faithful to what you have been taught from the beginning. If you do, you will remain in fellowship with the Son and with the Father.

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    Your abusive prooftexting of God's word is noted, JR.
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post


    But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:8-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...9&version=NKJV

    Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness.If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.” - John 3:10-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...1&version=NKJV

    For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. - 1 Timothy 4:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...0&version=NKJV

    Will provide more if needed.

    Watch now as B57 (and others) uses verses such as Matthew 26:28, John 17:9, Acts 20:28, etc.



    Sure it does. See above.



    Except that's not what most of us open theists believe.

    All a sinner has to do is recognize he's a sinner and humble himself before God, and acknowledge that he can't save himself, but that God can. Then he can accept the free gift of salvation offered by Christ.



    How much of an action is it for a bride to say "I do" to the groom, when he has done all the work already?



    Not sure what set of beliefs you're going after here, but it isn't those who are open-theists.







    So because we believe that God did all the work already to provide salvation to those who will just accept it, it takes glory and honor from God?

    God thinks otherwise.

    Far more glory and honor for God to do the work himself and have people love him unconditionally, just as He loved them!

    God wants all men to come to him. Yet, just like it would be wrong for a man to force himself upon a woman, it would be wrong for God to force Himself upon those who reject Him.

    God is capable. You think that those who reject a man made doctrine (namely "TULIP") make God out to be impotent, and incapable. That is incorrect.

    If anything, we believe God to be MORE THAN capable, and MORE sovereign than you do, and in addition, living, personal, relational, good, and loving.

    God is capable of working around those who reject Him. He is sovereign over all, but delegates authority to those under Him. He is a living God, He does what pleases Him, but is able to adapt to changes in the circumstances, because he's not a stone or wood idol that cannot do anything. He is a personal God, because for all of eternity past, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost have fellowshipped with each other, and have never wronged each other, and because He made man to form a new relationship, and then made woman, so that man would have someone else to have a relationship with. He is good, because as stated above, the three persons of the trinity have never wronged each other, and He will never violate His own will, and all of his judgments are just, never arbitrary. And He is loving, and to show that love, He sent His only begotten son to die on the cross for all of His creation, so that, if they wish to live with Him for all of eternity, they can, but even if they don't, He will allow them to reject Him, and be separated from Him for all of eternity.

    Those are God's biblical attributes.

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