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Thread: What is the Will of God . . .

  1. #76
    Over 1500 post club nikolai_42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The word "may" has been added to the verse. In Vine's Dictionary of New Testament Words the Greek word translated "know" in this verse means the "idea of appreciation as well as "knowledge" underlies several statements concerning the "knowledge" of God and His truth on the part of believers, e.g., Jhn 8:32; 14:20, 31; 17:3; Gal 4:9 (1st part); 1Jo 2:3, 13, 14; 4:6, 8, 16; 5:20; such "knowledge" is obtained, not by mere intellectual activity, but by operation of the Holy Spirit consequent upon acceptance of Christ."

    That is why we see the following translation of the same verse:

    "And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us insight to know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This one is the true God and eternal life" (1 Jn.5:20; NET).
    I have about 5 minutes...all that (from Vine's) may be true but nothing of what you said addresses the mood of the verb - that BLB indicates is subjunctive.
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

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    Over 1500 post club Faither's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    You described those people but you did not give a definition of the Greek word translated "believed" in that verse.

    So please give us a definition of the word pisteuō as it is used at John 2:23.

    For example, in another thread you gave the following definition about the meaning of the word:

    "The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

    I don't think that the meaning you gave for pisteuō there is the same meaning as it is used at John 2:23. Do you?

    If you don't then please give me a definition of the word as it is used at John 2:23.
    I've given a detailed understanding of the correct definition of pisteuo relating to Jn 2:23 in two different posts . If you didn't get it from those , another attempt probably won't help .

    Pretty easy to understand Jerry . Are you playing a game because of a lack of adequate responses ?

    The context of pisteuo , the act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence , as it relates to God , in any verse of Scripture is the continually surrendered life .

  3. #78
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faither View Post
    Pretty easy to understand Jerry . Are you playing a game because of a lack of adequate responses ?
    No, it is you who is playing games and in the process you are saying things which don't add up, such as the definition you gave for pisteuō here because the definition you give is not the complete definition of the word:

    "The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

    Here John uses that same word (pisteuō) and it is evident that its meaning in this passage is not the same one which you gave:

    "Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed (pisteuō) in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men"
    (Jn.2:23-24).

    You pose as an expert on the Greek word pisteuō but the facts show that you are actually ignorant about the meaning of the word.

  4. #79
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    I have about 5 minutes...all that (from Vine's) may be true but nothing of what you said addresses the mood of the verb - that BLB indicates is subjunctive.

    "The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances. Conditional sentences of the third class ("ean" + the subjunctive) are all of this type, as well as many commands following conditional purpose clauses, such as those beginning with "hina." (The Blue Letter Bible).

    It says it might or might not happen depending on the circumstances. Since the Lord is the One who is giving the insight to people so that they might know the Lord Jesus then are you going to argue that the circumstances might be that the Lord is unable to do that?

    Especially when we read the following:

    "And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Cor.2:4-5).

    I would say that unless a person resists the Holy Spirit he will know the Lord Jesus because his faith stands in the power of God.

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    Over 1500 post club Faither's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    No, it is you who is playing games and in the process you are saying things which don't add up, such as the definition you gave for pisteuō here because the definition you give is not the complete definition of the word:

    "The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

    Here John uses that same word (pisteuō) and it is evident that its meaning in this passage is not the same one which you gave:

    "Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed (pisteuō) in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men"
    (Jn.2:23-24).

    You pose as an expert on the Greek word pisteuō but the facts show that you are actually ignorant about the meaning of the word.
    I gave you the exact , complete , definition of pisteuo , out of the Greek dictionary , derived from the word pisteuo , the exact word the original authors used to communicate how Faith ( pistis ) is applied .

    I didn't choose the word pisteuo . And I didn't define it's definition . And I didn't mistranslate it into the English . So how is it I'm playing games ? I'm presenting the truth and you refuse to accept it , claiming theses are things made up by myself .

    Like I always say , the first requirement to answering the call of the Father is the ability to be honest with thy self . That is my recommendation to you . What I'm sharing with you , exposing your misunderstanding of how the Salvation journey begins , is not that difficult to understand .

    Pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT . It's context is always the continually surrendered life .

  6. #81
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faither View Post
    I gave you the exact , complete , definition of pisteuo , out of the Greek dictionary , derived from the word pisteuo , the exact word the original authors used to communicate how Faith ( pistis ) is applied .
    The definition which I quoted from you is NOT THE COMPLETE definition of the word pisteuo. Earlier I gave a definition from the word from Vine's which you left out.

    Again, you pose as an expert on the meaning of the word but you don't even know the first thing about the word.

  7. #82
    Over 1500 post club Faither's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The definition which I quoted from you is NOT THE COMPLETE definition of the word pisteuo. Earlier I gave a definition from the word from Vine's which you left out.

    Again, you pose as an expert on the meaning of the word but you don't even know the first thing about the word.
    Ok Jerry you can live with your choices . I thought you might be different from all the others in here , but your exactly the same . You can't defend yourself so you go right to misrepresentation and name-calling . If you were really interested in pisteuo , you would have chimed in on my pisteuo thread that you've obviously been avoiding for the past year . I'll be here if you ever want to get real !

  8. #83
    Over 1500 post club nikolai_42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    "The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances. Conditional sentences of the third class ("ean" + the subjunctive) are all of this type, as well as many commands following conditional purpose clauses, such as those beginning with "hina." (The Blue Letter Bible).

    It says it might or might not happen depending on the circumstances. Since the Lord is the One who is giving the insight to people so that they might know the Lord Jesus then are you going to argue that the circumstances might be that the Lord is unable to do that?
    No, I'm not arguing that the Lord is unable to do anything. I am arguing that someone has the option of stopping in their progression of knowing Him. The letters to the seven churches certainly give ample example of that taking place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Especially when we read the following:

    "And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Cor.2:4-5).

    I would say that unless a person resists the Holy Spirit he will know the Lord Jesus because his faith stands in the power of God.
    We aren't talking about faith. You may be, but that's not where the question lies. It lies in knowing God. Not just believing Him. Though I have all faith so that I can move mountains - but have not love - I am nothing. We love Him because He first loved us. And...

    As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
    If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    John 15:9-10

    Faith is not the expression of the character of God. Love is. If we are saved but don't show the fruits of the spirit, we aren't bearing much fruit (also in John 15). We may have faith, but the character of God is something that is not necessarily attendant with a conversion experience. For whatever reason, people do come to the Lord and then don't continue therein. It certainly could be that they were never His, but from a personal standpoint, if we don't have that desire for holiness, for knowing Christ in a very real and personal way (not just His salvation) are we continuing on? Are we abiding in Him? Recall that there were 3 different servants given 3 different quantities of talents and all 3 had different returns. What happened to the third?
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

  9. #84
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faither View Post
    I gave you the exact , complete , definition of pisteuo , out of the Greek dictionary , derived from the word pisteuo , the exact word the original authors used to communicate how Faith ( pistis ) is applied .
    Here is the defintion which you gave:

    The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

    Tell me which of those meanings you place on the word "pisteou" in the following verse:

    "Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed (pisteuō) in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men" (Jn.2:23-24).

  10. #85
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    -DELETED-
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; September 14th, 2018 at 08:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    No, I'm not arguing that the Lord is unable to do anything. I am arguing that someone has the option of stopping in their progression of knowing Him.
    I never said that is not true. But I am arguing that those with true faith know the Lord Jesus. And your own words indicate that they do. How can anyone have their progression of "knowing" Him cut short if they don't know Him to begin with?

    I love the Lord Jesus because I know Him from what the Scriptures reveal about Him, beginning with the gospel which reveals that He died for my sins. How can anyone not love Him just because of that? The Scriptures also reveal many things about the Lord Jesus and those things increase my knowledge of Him.

    What do you know about Him? Let me start with the following question to you in regard to your knowledge of Him. Do you know that He was made like His brethren in all things?:

    "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted" (Heb.2:17-18).

    In his commentary on this verse Matthew Poole wrote that "To be made like unto his brethren; a man having a true body and soul like them in every thing, which was necessary to make him a complete Redeemer; agreeable to them in all things necessary to their nature, qualities, conditions, and affections; like them in sorrows, griefs, pains, death."

    In order to really know the Lord Jesus in regard to what He is as the Christian's High Priest we must KNOW that He was made like His brethren in "all things."

    Do you KNOW that He was made like His brethren in all things?

    Thanks!

  12. #87
    Over 1500 post club Faither's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Here is the defintion which you gave:

    The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

    Tell me which of those meanings you place on the word "pisteou" in the following verse:

    "Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed (pisteuō) in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men" (Jn.2:23-24).
    Already did twice go back and look at them and ask me what you don't understand .

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faither View Post
    Already did twice go back and look at them and ask me what you don't understand .
    We can continue the discussion on the thread which you started on this subject.

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    Over 1500 post club Faither's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    We can continue the discussion on the thread which you started on this subject.
    No you claim that know God and His will is by " believing " God's word , thats incorrect and will be dealt with on this thread or not at all .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faither View Post
    The answer is in the Vines Greek dictionary . The application of Faith is the Greek word pisteuo . Pisteuo is defined as " a personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender ."

    That could have been done , starting a relationship with Christ , simply begun by the drawing of the Father , then responded to by pisteuo .
    So when we see the word pisteuo in the following passage it means that the Lord Jesus did not commit Himself to them even though they made a personal surrender to Him?:

    "Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed (pisteuo) in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men" (Jn.2:23-24).

    You sure have some strange ideas concerning the meaning of the Greek word pisteuo.

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