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Thread: The Restitution Of All Things AKA Universalism

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    Dear Tambora: Are you aware that if you save your life you will destroy it? That friend, is the exact word used in reference to Judas in koine!

    "God is [the] Saviour of all mankind, and especially those who believe/trust in Him. Command this & teach this."

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregoryN View Post
    22 For as indeed in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

    27 For “He has put in subjection all under His feet.” But when it may be said that all things have been put in subjection, it is evident that the One having put in subjection all things to Him is excepted. 28 Now when all shall have been put in subjection to Him, then also the Son Himself will be put in subjection to the One having put in subjection all to Him, so that God may be all in all.
    So you are completely unfamiliar with FIGURES OF SPEECH and CONTEXT?
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So you are completely unfamiliar with FIGURES OF SPEECH and CONTEXT?

    Dear R.D: What part of the context is discombobulating you?

    1. How many die in Adam1?

    2. What part of all/pas is evading you? Adam1 or the Last Adam?

    3. What is the scope of the subjection to Christ? Partial or complete?

    4. Will God be all in all or only all in some?

    22 For as indeed in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

    27 For “He has put in subjection all under His feet.” But when it may be said that all things have been put in subjection, it is evident that the One having put in subjection all things to Him is excepted. 28 Now when all shall have been put in subjection to Him, then also the Son Himself will be put in subjection to the One having put in subjection all to Him, so that God may be all in all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Let's look and see what scripture specifically says about Judas.


    John 17:12 KJV
    (12) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


    We see right there in black and white that Jesus did lose Judas.
    So the statement that Jesus never lost any is false.

    Now let's see what sort of future scripture gives concerning Judas specifically.


    Matthew 26:24 KJV
    (24) The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.


    That's not sounding like a bright and happy future for Judas at all.
    That says Judas was lost. The same Greek word for "lost" is used of the prodigal son who was later found. So just posting a Scripture about Judas being "lost" fails to prove anything about his final destiny.

    Likewise the other passage you posted also fails to prove anything about his final destiny. Jesus said it would have been better if Judas had not been born. He did not say it would have been better if Judas had never been conceived or existed. The latter opposes universalism, the former does not necessarily do so. One who dies in the womb without being born has existed. To not be born & die before being born means that one existed.

    It would be better to be (1) concieved (& therefore to exist) & not be born than (2) to be born & live a wicked life (e.g. Judas Iscariot), because the former is in better standing with God than the latter (compare, for example, Lk.12:47-48). Judas will suffer the wrath of God of which the child in utero, who was never born, is not deserving. Therefore, for Judas, it would have been better if he had never been born, but died in his mother's womb. But, though he will suffer the wrath of God, this does not rule out the possibility of his ultimate salvation. Therefore Mt.26:24 fails as a proof text against him being saved.

    BTW, in Mt.18:6 is the lame warning of a punishment which is compared to mere drowning, which is nothing compared to being kept alive for the sole purpose of being tortured for all the "endless" ages of eternity that have "no end" & "never" cease. Jesus says it is "better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea". OTOH, if He had been a believer in endless punishment, He could have expressed that by saying it is better for them to have never lived, never been conceived, or that their parents had never known (had sex with) one another. Compare this anti-biblical Jewish view that the Lord Jesus Christ, Love Omnipotent, rejected:

    "To every individual is apportioned two shares, one in hell and one in paradise. At death, however, the righteous man's portion in hell is exchanged, so that he has two in heaven, while the reverse is true in the case of sinners (Ḥag. 15a). Hence it would have been better for the latter not to have lived at all (Yeb. 63b)." http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6558-gehenna

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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    I am anxious to impress You!

    Ah, that statement speaks volumes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Ah, that statement speaks volumes.
    Originally Posted by FineLinen

    "I am anxious to impress You!"

    Dear glorydaz. This may be a terrible challenge for you, but would you be so kind as to present the context for this statement speaking volumes. It would not be with the powers of ten video would it?

    Context, context, context!

    "Dear Father: Can you see Stripe and I? No, the woman at the picnic is NOT Stripe!

    I am anxious to impress You!"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKBhvDjuy0

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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    Dear Father: Can you see Stripe and I? No, the woman at the picnic is NOT Stripe!

    I am anxious to impress You!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKBhvDjuy0


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    Quote Originally Posted by GregoryN View Post
    That says Judas was lost. The same Greek word for "lost" is used of the prodigal son who was later found. So just posting a Scripture about Judas being "lost" fails to prove anything about his final destiny.
    Ummm, scripture specifically says of Judas that it would better if he had never been born because of his betrayal of the Lord Jesus Christ.
    We don't have to guess or speculate because scripture plainly tells us the destiny of Judas, and it ain't good.

    "The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name." Exodus 15:3

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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    My friend: If I could help you to know Him I will do it. There are only two things in the foundation:

    1. A hunger for Him.

    2. humility of spirit.

    Both must arise from His reach for each of us. The hunger He places in us & will not be satisfied wirh anything but Him. An experience in the Fire of His presence will more than meet the condition of humility of experience.
    Agreed

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    I cannot get into the mystery of evil's origin at this present moment.
    I don't blame you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    ...I am most certainly not one who believes in anything associated with "limited" and therefore far, far from the dogma of TULIP.,...
    You both believe He chooses. The difference between you and the "dogma of TULIP", is who the 'elect' are; they say God chooses some, you say God chooses all.

    You have tried to get away from the Calvinist's God by declaring that all men are chosen.
    Calvin himself struggled.

    You still believe the T, the U, the I, and the P and you are a very, very small step from the L because you believe God determines the election.

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post

    ..."Any true definition of Christian Universalism MUST INCLUDE THE BELIEF that God is all Sovereign, loving, powerful, wise, just, and ultimately rules over everything.,...
    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    ...Here we may ask, can any light, however small, be thrown on this awful mystery of sin?

    ...,. . . . . Certainly Scripture asserts that "God hath shut up all men unto disobedience, in order that He might have mercy upon all." Note here the stress boldly laid on God's agency, and not on man's will. The universality alike of sin and of salvation, both are equally absolute and universal.,...
    Last edited by blackbirdking; August 7th, 2018 at 10:36 PM. Reason: quotation

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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    ...I do however fully believe our Father more intimately referred to as Abba can be trusted. He does all things well! ...,...
    Trusted by whom? Those in hell waiting for salvation, or those on earth waiting to see if they need hell for refinement? Or maybe those saved ones who will be permanently, spiritually, impaired for being born into this 'temporary, mysterious arrangement' and doing what they were designed to do.

    You think that God designed an arrangement for Adam to sin. Whether or not man suffers eternal punishment is irrelevant if God ordained/planned/designed man's sinfulness and declared it to be agreeable to Himself. If God caused Adam's sin, we both have a far bigger problem than eternal punishment.

    If He caused that Eve would be deceived, then cursed her for it, He might also be devising your deceit. You also may be believing a lie and suffer being cursed; hmmmm, for a day, a century, a millennium, eternity halved??

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    ...And thus we see not an arrangement by which man starts innocent, free to choose sin or not, but a (virtual) provision for the hereditary transmission of evil by which innocence becomes impossible to all, by which every child of Adam is, in the divine plan, "shut up unto (sin) disobedience," an arrangement inconceivable on the part of a good and loving Father, except with a settled purpose of mercy to every one. . . . .

    Do the evil effects of long continued willful sin ever wholly pass away?

    It may be replied, perhaps never in some cases.,...
    So God created man with the intent that man would be evil; then holds man accountable as though man chose.

    Exactly what the Calvinists teach.

    I repeat:
    Quote Originally Posted by blackbirdking View Post
    Could you explain how it was agreeable to God for Him to create evil for His own glory; your answer will be the same as the other Calvinists on this site.
    Were you a Calvinist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbirdking View Post
    You both believe He chooses. The difference between you and the "dogma of TULIP", is who the 'elect' are; they say God chooses some, you say God chooses all.
    Dear blackbirdking:

    "God is [the]Saviour of ALL mankind & especially those who believe/trust in Him. Command this & teach this."

    1. God is Saviour.

    2. God is Saviour of how many? All/pas mankind.

    3. God is NOT Saviour of monon/monos those who believe/trust in Him.

    4. God IS Saviour of especially/malista those who trust in Him.

    5. Command this & teach this.

    "You did not choose Me"

    I chose you."


    Scripture asserts that "God has shut up all men unto disobedience, in order that He might have mercy upon all." Note here the stress boldly laid on God's agency, and not on man's will. The universality alike of sin and of salvation, both are equally absolute and universal.

    1. All mankind is shut up to disobedience.

    2. How much is the radical pas/all?

    3. Mankind shut up/concluded to disobedience: WHY?

    4. Mercy on all mankind.

    5. Both salvation & sin universal= ALL mankind.

    https://www.biblestudytools.com/roma...2-compare.html

    "God has locked up all people in disobedience, in order to have mercy on all of them."
    Last edited by FineLinen; August 8th, 2018 at 12:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    5. Command this & teach this. "You did not choose Me" I chose you."
    Specifically, His disciples. Including Judas the Betrayer.

    "God has locked up all people in disobedience, in order to have mercy on all of them."
    Why didn't He lock people in righteousness? Then there would be no mercy necessary.

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