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Thread: The Restitution Of All Things AKA Universalism

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    Please welcome a Jewess to the link

    http://www.tentmaker.org/

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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    What Is Christian Universalism?

    "Any true definition of Christian Universalism MUST INCLUDE THE BELIEF that God is all Sovereign, loving, powerful, wise, just, and ultimately rules over everything. It MUST ALSO INCLUDE the belief that salvation is only by faith in God and was finalized by Jesus Christ "who gave Himself a ransom for all" (1 Tim 2:6). The definition of Christian Universalism DOES INCLUDE THE BELIEF that God "will have all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:4)."
    God is sovereign and makes the rules that we are expected to obey.
    God's rules also include the eternal punishment for the disobedient.
    There can not be both universal salvation and eternal punishment.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    God is sovereign and makes the rules that we are expected to obey.
    God's rules also include the eternal punishment for the disobedient.
    There can not be both universal salvation and eternal punishment.
    Dear genuineoriginal: God does indeed make the rules. There also cannot be universal reconciliation & "eternal" punishment!

    Am I to understand you grasp the difference between aionios (with sister Hebrew "olam" & aidios? Eternal is only found twice in koine, both in reference to the aidios God of glory. Only the Living One is eternal: ONLY!
    Pantokrator in the Revelation is also in the same position in reference to Almighty God.

    I assume you are referring to Matt, 25.46 which I fully intend to cover at a later time. In this passage of parable, the Master is speaking of two clean animals, not one clean & the other unclean. It flows from previous words regarding 10 virgins (5 wise & 5 foolish), but virgins!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    Dear genuineoriginal: God does indeed make the rules. There also cannot be universal reconciliation & "eternal" punishment!

    Am I to understand you grasp the difference between aionios (with sister Hebrew "olam" & aidios? Eternal is only found twice in koine, both in reference to the aidios God of glory. Only the Living One is eternal: ONLY!
    It appears that you think the meaning of "eternal" always includes "having no beginning" instead of the way the Bible uses it to mean "having no end".

    Only God has no beginning, but God grants eternal life (life without end) to those He chooses.

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    I assume you are referring to Matt, 25.46 which I fully intend to cover at a later time. In this passage of parable, the Master is speaking of two clean animals, not one clean & the other unclean. It flows from previous words regarding 10 virgins (5 wise & 5 foolish), but virgins!
    No, it flows from the separation of the nations to the right hand and the left hand.
    Those that show kindness towards others are counted as righteous and go into eternal life, those that do not show kindness towards others are not counted as righteous and go into everlasting punishment.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    It appears that you think the meaning of "eternal" always includes "having no beginning" instead of the way the Bible uses it to mean "having no end".

    Only God has no beginning, but God grants eternal life (life without end) to those He chooses.


    No, it flows from the separation of the nations to the right hand and the left hand.
    Those that show kindness towards others are counted as righteous and go into eternal life, those that do not show kindness towards others are not counted as righteous and go into everlasting punishment.
    Dear genuineoriginal: works do not "count" as righteousness, they flow out of union and communion with the Lord Jesus Christ. Are you actually stating "everlasting punisment" is on the basis of not visiting the Lord in prison, not giving Him to drink, not feeding Him, as the foundation for punishment that exists non stop for endless ages? I think not!

    The parable regards two CLEAN animals and continues from virgins not harlots, VIRGINS. Why is the Master not speaking of sheep and pigs (swine) or sheep and dogs? Why?

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    Matthew 25:31-46
    [31]“But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne.
    [32]All the nations will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
    [33]He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left.
    [34]“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world.
    [35]For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home.
    [36]I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’
    [37]“Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink?
    [38]Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing?
    [39]When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
    [40]“And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’
    [41]“Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons.
    [42]For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink.
    [43]I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’
    [44]“Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’
    [45]“And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’
    [46]“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    It appears that you think the meaning of "eternal" always includes "having no beginning" instead of the way the Bible uses it to mean "having no end".

    Only God has no beginning, but God grants eternal life (life without end) to those He chooses.


    No, it flows from the separation of the nations to the right hand and the left hand.
    Those that show kindness towards others are counted as righteous and go into eternal life, those that do not show kindness towards others are not counted as righteous and go into everlasting punishment.
    So it's kindness that counts? In that case there'll be plenty of atheists, agnostics and non Christians that'll be in "Heaven" then.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    So it's kindness that counts? In that case there'll be plenty of atheists, agnostics and non Christians that'll be in "Heaven" then.
    The people being separated to the right and left all acknowledge Jesus as their Lord, so they are all Christians.
    Atheists do not believe in Jesus as their Lord, so their kindness will not count for anything.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    The people being separated to the right and left all acknowledge Jesus as their Lord, so they are all Christians.
    Bingo! We are beginning to see that "eternal punishment" is for two of the Lords flocks by the Scapegoat, Jesus the Christ! Where shall we proceed to now?

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    Rev. 5.13=

    https://www.biblestudytools.com/reve...3-compare.html

    "And I heard every creature in heaven, on earth, in the world below, and in the sea - all living beings in the universe - and they were singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb, be praise and honor, glory and might, forever and ever!"

    -A. T. Robertson=

    "Every created thing (pan ktisma).

    Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from ktizw, for which see 1 Timothy 4:4 ; James 1:18 ),

    From all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in verse James 3 , with on the sea epi th qalassh added).

    No created thing is left out.

    This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (ktisi) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption.

    If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off."

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    "The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free/emancipated..."

    "In my opinion whatever we may have to go through now is less than nothing compared with the magnificent future God has planned for us. The whole creation is on tiptoe to see the wonderful sight of the sons of God coming into their own. The world of creation cannot as yet see reality, not because it chooses to be blind, but because in God's purpose it has been so limited - yet it has been given hope. And the hope is that in the end the whole of created life will be rescued from the tyranny of change and decay, and have its share in that magnificent liberty which can only belong to the children of God!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    Rev. 5.13=

    https://www.biblestudytools.com/reve...3-compare.html

    "And I heard every creature in heaven, on earth, in the world below, and in the sea - all living beings in the universe - and they were singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb, be praise and honor, glory and might, forever and ever!"

    -A. T. Robertson=

    "Every created thing (pan ktisma).

    Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from ktizw, for which see 1 Timothy 4:4 ; James 1:18 ),

    From all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in verse James 3 , with on the sea epi th qalassh added).

    No created thing is left out.

    This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (ktisi) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption.

    If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off."
    All the creatures in hell, however, are weeping and gnashing their teeth.
    Matthew 13:40-43
    [40]“Just as the weeds are sorted out and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the world.
    [41]The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
    [42]And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    [43]Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!
    Luke 13:25-30
    [25]When the master of the house has locked the door, it will be too late. You will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Lord, open the door for us!’ But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’
    [26]Then you will say, ‘But we ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
    [27]And he will reply, ‘I tell you, I don’t know you or where you come from. Get away from me, all you who do evil.’
    [28]“There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, for you will see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the Kingdom of God, but you will be thrown out.
    [29]And people will come from all over the world—from east and west, north and south—to take their places in the Kingdom of God.
    [30]And note this: Some who seem least important now will be the greatest then, and some who are the greatest now will be least important then.”

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