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Thread: The Restitution Of All Things AKA Universalism

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    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLinen View Post
    Dear Gregory: Are you sure these Scriptures are correct? According to many rascals John was discombobulated: He should have declared Look, the Lamb of God who takes away some of the sin of some of the world, and a very small part of the world.

    The mass of mankind constituted sinners= >>>> the mass of mankind constituted righteous.
    John made it clear that Jesus came to save the world, but that everyone that does not believe on Him are condemned instead of saved because their deeds are evil.

    John 3:14-19
    14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

    Learn to read what is written.

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    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Why do you persist in substituting a different argument to attack? That's the classic "straw man argument" fallacy. One goat was for the LORD and one goat was for Azazel. You could not have two more opposite designations if you tried.
    H5799 `aza'zel עֲזָאזֵל
    From עֵז (H5795) and אָזַל (H235)
    H5795 `ez עֵז
    a young goat
    H235 'azal אָזַל
    to go, to go away, to go about

    The lot for the Lord indicated a goat that was to be sacrificed.
    The lot for Azazel indicated a goat that was to be sent away.

    Azazel is not the name of a demon or anything like that, it just means "go away kid (goat)"
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    John made it clear that Jesus came to save the world, but that everyone that does not believe on Him are condemned instead of saved because their deeds are evil.

    John 3:14-19
    14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    And yet all those "condemned" unbelievers who later became believers are now no longer "condemned". So, you see, the being "condemned" was only temporary.

    For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eonian (aionion) life. (Jn. 3:16).

    In John 3:16 there is no question that those who are believing - shall - not perish. Even though the subjunctive "should" is used. For it is used with the hina (so that) indicating purpose or result.

    Likewise, in the very next verse, Jn.3:17, the hina occurs again with subjunctive, just as it does in John 3:16:

    For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. (Jn.3:17)

    There we see God's reason in sending His Son, namely to save the world. That was the Diivine will of God, Who is Love Omnipotent. And notice what BDAG says about the "divine will":

    “In many cases purpose and result cannot be clearly differentiated, and hence ἵνα is used for the result that follows according to the purpose of the subj. or of God. As in Semitic and Gr-Rom. thought, purpose and result are identical in declarations of the divine will…” https://translate.academic.ru/ἵνα/el/xx/

    More literal versions of John 3:16 say:

    16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian. (CLV)

    16 for God did so love the world, that His Son—the only begotten—He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. (YLT)

    16 For God, so loved, the world, that, his Only Begotten Son, he gave,—that, whosoever believeth on him, might not perish, but have life age-abiding. (Ro)

    16 Thus for loved the God the world, so that the son of himself the only-begotten he gave, that every one who believing into him, not may be destroyed, but may have life age-lasting. (Diaglott)

    Perish for how long & in what way? The same Greek word for "perish" is used of the prodigal son who was "lost" but later found. He was ruined, not annihilated.

    Not everyone will get EONIAN life, which pro Endless Hell club, anti universalist, versions mistranslate as "eternal life". Those who believe before they die get EONIAN life. They will live & reign with Christ for the 1000 years of the millennial EON (Rev.20). Unbelievers will not. They go to "hell" until they repent & are saved, since God becomes "all in ALL" (1 Cor.15:22-28). For Jesus is the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world (Jn.1:29), "the Saviour of the world" (John 4:42), Who will draw all to Himself (John 12:32).

    John 3:16 says unbelievers "perish", not that they perish endlessly. If Jesus had wanted to say "perish endlessly" there was a Greek word for "endless" He could have used (aperantos, 1 Tim.1:4). He could have also used the words "no end" (Lk.1:33) of perishing. Clearly endless punishment is not the teaching of the Word of God.

    "While we are on the topic, however, I might mention that, alongside various, often seemingly contradictory images of eschatological punishment, the New Testament also contains a large number of seemingly explicit statements of universal salvation, excluding no one (for instance, John 3:17; 12:32, 47; Romans 5:18-19; 11:32; 1 Corinthians 15:22; 2 Corinthians 5:14, 19; Philippians 2:9-11; 1 Timothy 2:3-6;4:10; Titus 2:11; Hebrews 2:9; 2 Peter 3:9; Colossians 1:19-20; 1 John 2:2 … to mention only some of the most striking). To me it is surpassingly strange that, down the centuries, most Christians have come to believe that the former class of claims—all of which are metaphorical, pictorial, vague, and elliptical in form—must be regarded as providing the “literal” content of the New Testament’s teaching, while the latter—which are invariably straightforward doctrinal statements—must be regarded as mere hyperbole. It is one of the great mysteries of Christian history (or perhaps of a certain kind of religious psychopathology)."

    https://afkimel.wordpress.com/2018/0...e-dbh-version/

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregoryN View Post
    That, dear brother in Christ, sounds rather like Calvinism than the Holy Scriptures of Love Omnipotent.

    "The Dark Side of Calvinism: The Calvinist Caste System":

    https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Side-Cal.../dp/1931667888

    "What Love Is This?: Calvinism’s Misrepresentation of God":

    https://www.amazon.com/What-Love-Thi...0X7MHMRA4RS54E
    Dear Gregory: Who knows which rascals are worse: The rabid Calvinists with the we only dogma, or the unbelieving "believers"?

    Articles

    BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM: The Purest Expression of the Gospel!

    "It’s in Christ that we find out who we are and what we are living for. Long before we first heard of Christ and got our hopes up, he had his eye on us, had designs on us for glorious living, part of the overall purpose he is working out in everything and everyone. It’s in Christ that you, once you heard the truth and believed it (this Message of your salvation), found yourselves home free—signed, sealed, and delivered by the Holy Spirit. This signet from God is the first installment on what’s coming, a reminder that we’ll get everything God has planned for us, a praising and glorious life." -The Message-

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    Over 4000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    H5799 `aza'zel עֲזָאזֵל
    From עֵז (H5795) and אָזַל (H235)
    H5795 `ez עֵז
    a young goat
    H235 'azal אָזַל
    to go, to go away, to go about

    The lot for the Lord indicated a goat that was to be sacrificed.
    The lot for Azazel indicated a goat that was to be sent away.

    Azazel is not the name of a demon or anything like that, it just means "go away kid (goat)"
    So it was just coincidental that the name was assigned to devils and leaders of fallen angels from so many different sources?

    I could have predicted your response on this question if given the chance. You can't have the the first goat being the LORD either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregoryN View Post
    That, dear brother in Christ, sounds rather like Calvinism than the Holy Scriptures of Love Omnipotent.

    "The Dark Side of Calvinism: The Calvinist Caste System":

    https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Side-Cal.../dp/1931667888

    "What Love Is This?: Calvinismís Misrepresentation of God":

    https://www.amazon.com/What-Love-Thi...0X7MHMRA4RS54E
    Dear Gregory: The message of the Prophets rings in our ears! The Universal Hum & its source as yet has not been discovered.

    The Hum of all hums=

    The Prophets

    "He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass; as showers that water the earth. In his days shall the righteous flourish: and abundance of peace so long as the moon endures. He shall have dominion from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth." Ps. 72: 6-8.

    "All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord; and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before you." Ps. 22: 27.

    "All nations whom you have made shall come and worship before you, O Lord; and shall glorify your name. "Ps. 86: 9.

    "Will the Lord cast off for ever? and will he be favorable no more? Is his mercy clean gone forever? does his promise fail for evermore? Has God forgotten to be gracious? has he in anger shut up his tender mercies? Selah.

    And I said, This is my infirmity: but I will remember the years of the right hand of the Most High." - Ps. 77: 10.

    "For he says, The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger forever". Ps. 103: 9.

    "For his anger endures but a moment; in his favor is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning." Ps. 30: 5.

    "If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; if they break my statutes, and keep not my
    commandments; then will I visit their transgressions with the rod, and their iniquities with stripes, nevertheless my loving kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail." Ps. 89: 30-33.

    "The Lord is gracious and full of compassion; slow to anger and of great mercy. The Lord is good to all and his tender mercies are over all his works." Ps. 165: 8, 9.

    "All nations whom you have made shall come and worship before you, O Lord, and shall glorify your name. "Ps. 86: 9.

    "O you that hears prayer, unto you shall all flesh come." Ps. 65: 2.

    "All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn unto the Lord; and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before you." Ps. 22: 27.

    "He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces." Isa. 25: 8.

    "Look unto me and be you saved, all the ends of the earth, for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself; the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear, surely shall say: "In the Lord have I righteousness and strength." Isa. 45: 24-27.

    "He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied."Isa. 53: 11.

    "As the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, and returns not thither, but waters the earth and makes it bring forth and bud that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater, so shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth, it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." Isa. 55: 10, 11.

    "Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? Yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget you." Isa. 49: 15.

    "Behold, the days come, says the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke although I was a husband unto them, says the Lord. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, know the Lord, for they shall all know me from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the Lord, for I will forgive their sin and I will remember their iniquity no more." Jer. 31: 31-34.

    "I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be your plagues: O grave, I will be your destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes." Hos. 13: 14.

    "Who is a God like unto you, that pardons iniquity, and passes by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retains not his anger forever because he delights in mercy. He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us. He will subdue our iniquities, and you will cast all their sins into the depth of the sea. You will perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which you have sworn unto our fathers from the days of old." Mic. 7: 18, 19, 20.

    "And there was given him dominion, and glory and a kingdom, that all people, nations and languages should serve him: his dominion is an ever lasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." Dan. 7: 14.

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    From eternity past God intended that the most vivid and profound demonstration of his glory would come in the form of His work of salvation on the cross of Christ.

    - God then made man to punish him.

    - He made him perfect and thus unlikely to ever need punishing, or, for that matter, need a Savior.

    - By a happy coincidence, and against all the odds, this perfect man sinned, thus allowing God to fulfill His purposes for both the man and Christ.

    - When he sinned, God, who is suddenly confronted with the prospect of being able to fulfill all of His original plans, becomes furious.

    What you have just read is not a joke. I wish that it were. Rather, I have simply enumerated the points that comprise the Calvinist theological system, or, as I call it: the Happy Coincidence model of sin and salvation.

    'It reflects what can only be described as an Alice-in-Wonderland reality, in which the only sense is nonsense, and logic is the enemy. This book will seek to explore some of its many logical inconsistencies and, in the process, propose a perfectly viable--and biblical--alternative.


    https://wipfandstock.com/the-calvini...versalist.html

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    Saviour of the World Series -J. Preston Eby-

    https://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

    Preston Eby Testimony

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEwcWR8kxUs

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    Let us look at this verse again:

    "And these shall go away into eternal (aiōnios) punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (aiōnios)" (Mt.25:26).

    Since the structure of this verse is best described as being a "parallelism" then the Greek word aiōnios must carry with it the same meaning in both instances where it is used.
    Then, by the same reasoning, the "parallel" in Rom.5:19 proves Scriptural universalism to be true:

    Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

    Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

    1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

    1 Cor.15:28 And when ALL shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put ALL under him, that God may be all in ALL.

    Col.1:16 For by Him ***ALL*** was created that are in HEAVEN and that are on EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All was created through Him and for Him.
    20 and by Him to reconcile ***ALL*** to Himself, by Him, whether on EARTH or in HEAVEN, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

    And your translation of Mt.25:46 contradicts this translation of Lamentations 3:

    Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
    32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.

    While these translations (& others) of Mt.25:46 are in harmony with all the verses above i have posted:

    The New Testament: A Translation, by Eastern Orthodox scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017, Yale Press):
    "And these shall go to the chastening of that Age, but the just to the life of that Age."

    Youngs Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1898:
    "And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."

    Emphatic Diaglott, 1942 edition
    "And these shall go forth to the aionian 1 cutting-off; but the RIGHTEOUS to aionian Life."

    Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983
    And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

    Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959
    "And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, But the righteous into age-abiding life."

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