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Thread: What does the Doctrine of Inspiration mean to you?

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    Over 1000 post club Faither's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    So this being the point of our departure on this topic, I thought I would point it out and comment on just that portion. I thanked your last post, not because I agree with every point, but because you did an excellent job of stating your case and the logic behind it. Good job.

    What you have not shown is the logic/mechanics by which inspiration was transferred. Inspiration is not a quality that can be transferred. It's an action performed by God. How did this action morph into a quality that is now embedded in the scriptures?

    The human authors were guided. Are the scriptures guided? They were moved by the Holy Spirit. Is the Bible moved?

    The scriptures are inerrant. Were the authors inerrant? The Bible is the infallible Word of God. Were the authors infallible? or the Word?

    There are things that happened to the authors that were not transferred to the finished product. And many things that the finished product is that were not transferred from them. Because being moved by the Holy Spirit is an action of God, it accomplished it's purpose by the effect it had on the authors.



    They were not given inspiration. Inspiration is not a thing to be given. It is an action of God performed within humanity.They were inspired, not given it. They were guided, moved, superintended during the time of their writing.



    Inspiration cannot be recorded or written down; it is not a language. They were not dictated actual words to like Muslims believe Mohammed received actual words from God in Arabic. He did not write words on golden plates for Joseph Smith to discover. God used all of their human faculties and personalities They wrote what they were moved to write and God preserved what He wanted kept.

    Something that needs to be addressed is that the Bible talks a lot about the qualities of scripture but never once calls itself inspired (except in some of the recent, liberal versions).

    When I tried to lay the ground work for presenting the " mechanics " of how God works , His paradoxical framework of understanding , you rejected it outright .

    This is why I camp outside God's Word ,at the very beginning of the journey to make sure the called out ones know what is required , by them , to fulfill the covenant , the contract with God . Everything stems from Faith and faithing , from pistis and pisteuo . Without a " correct " life of Faithing , the Grace deposit can not be sealed into someone . Without the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit , God , His word , His ways can't be understood .

    My understanding of how the mechanics of inspiration were transferred from God directly into written form , which I've already stated has only happened in regards to the Bible in the original manuscripts .

    Correct pisteuo or faithing , is " a continual surrendering of our life and will to Him , and living a life inspired by such surrender ." As this continually surrendered life is deemed genuine , tested , accepted , ( He accepts us , we don't accept Him ) and claimed or made His by " giving" the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit , we become proof of that paradoxical framework .

    At this point we have a real piece of our creator , the God and king of the universes. Because we are continually , and willingly giving our life and will to Him , which is the correct NT spiritual law , we connect to Christ .

    With all that said , with the Holy Spirit not being some external inspiration , but an internal inspiration . how can you say that what is heard can't be recorded and concidered inspired by God , ( the teachings of Christ ) ? How can you say that what's happening as this Grace deposit is being perfected by the " mind of Christ " , was not inspired by God Himself into written form ? Speaking " only " of the original manuscripts .

    The one who you see as " the inspired one " has positioned themselves to be a conduit for God to use for His purposes . Yes , we are talking about being willingly possessed by God . With this possession or Temple of the Holy Spirit complete , who is actually doing the recording or writing ? What is truly being inspired ?

    One last thought .
    Rom 7:14 , 21 .

    It's here where we can safely look at the state of being Paul communicates . He states when he does what he does not want to do , it's not him doing it , but sin dwelling on him doing it . Well it's by the same token , that when he does do what he wants to do , it's not him doing that either , but the Holy Spirit doing it .

    The Greek is specfic . Paul is in a state of being where there is in him the Holy Spirit , the sinful nature , and Paul being a third entity who's only purpose is which one he will continue to give his life and will to. The Greek specifically communicates how the Holy Spirit and the sinful nature are engaged in" trench warfare "over his soul .

    So the correct state of being a temple of the Holy Spirit is in ? You have the Holy Spirit and the sinful nature engaged in trench warfare , and Paul is merely an onlooker with only the choice of who to continue to give power to.

    This is my understanding of how the original manuscripts not only were inspired directly by God , but also continually inspire the Temple's of the Holy Spirit today .

  2. #77
    TOL Subscriber George Affleck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faither View Post
    When I tried to lay the ground work for presenting the " mechanics " of how God works , His paradoxical framework of understanding , you rejected it outright .

    This is why I camp outside God's Word ,at the very beginning of the journey to make sure the called out ones know what is required , by them , to fulfill the covenant , the contract with God . Everything stems from Faith and faithing , from pistis and pisteuo . Without a " correct " life of Faithing , the Grace deposit can not be sealed into someone . Without the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit , God , His word , His ways can't be understood .

    My understanding of how the mechanics of inspiration were transferred from God directly into written form , which I've already stated has only happened in regards to the Bible in the original manuscripts .

    Correct pisteuo or faithing , is " a continual surrendering of our life and will to Him , and living a life inspired by such surrender ." As this continually surrendered life is deemed genuine , tested , accepted , ( He accepts us , we don't accept Him ) and claimed or made His by " giving" the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit , we become proof of that paradoxical framework .

    At this point we have a real piece of our creator , the God and king of the universes. Because we are continually , and willingly giving our life and will to Him , which is the correct NT spiritual law , we connect to Christ .

    With all that said , with the Holy Spirit not being some external inspiration , but an internal inspiration . how can you say that what is heard can't be recorded and concidered inspired by God , ( the teachings of Christ ) ? How can you say that what's happening as this Grace deposit is being perfected by the " mind of Christ " , was not inspired by God Himself into written form ? Speaking " only " of the original manuscripts .

    The one who you see as " the inspired one " has positioned themselves to be a conduit for God to use for His purposes . Yes , we are talking about being willingly possessed by God . With this possession or Temple of the Holy Spirit complete , who is actually doing the recording or writing ? What is truly being inspired ?

    One last thought .
    Rom 7:14 , 21 .

    It's here where we can safely look at the state of being Paul communicates . He states when he does what he does not want to do , it's not him doing it , but sin dwelling on him doing it . Well it's by the same token , that when he does do what he wants to do , it's not him doing that either , but the Holy Spirit doing it .

    The Greek is specfic . Paul is in a state of being where there is in him the Holy Spirit , the sinful nature , and Paul being a third entity who's only purpose is which one he will continue to give his life and will to. The Greek specifically communicates how the Holy Spirit and the sinful nature are engaged in" trench warfare "over his soul .

    So the correct state of being a temple of the Holy Spirit is in ? You have the Holy Spirit and the sinful nature engaged in trench warfare , and Paul is merely an onlooker with only the choice of who to continue to give power to.

    This is my understanding of how the original manuscripts not only were inspired directly by God , but also continually inspire the Temple's of the Holy Spirit today .
    About ten posts ago we entered the realm of 'Wide and Shallow' where hundreds of separate threads could be spawned and far too many parts of posts do not get proper attention. But I am going to resist the temptation to comment fully and concentrate on the portion highlighted in red as being the key issue.

    The answer to that portion in red is; "English does not work that way."
    The word 'inspired' denotes an action; in this case a spiritual, supernatural one. As such it cannot describe a present condition. It would be just as silly to say that scripture is expired, but that is closer to the truth.

    The church fathers used Latin as their preferred language to establish Christian doctrine. They got the translation from Greek to Latin wrong in the Vulgate because 'inspirata' means to blow into. They should have used 'expirata' - to blow out, which more accurately reflects the meaning of 'theopneustos'. But they did not and this idea hung around within the church and, as a result of ecumenical influence, it's seeping into Protestant orthodoxy once more. It is not surprising that the New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition , a version approved by the Vatican, has "inspired by God". 'Inspired' has become accepted by some Christians as a quality which the Bible exhibits and questioning it to get at the truth is frowned upon.

    The only way to reconcile this view of inspiration is to believe that God "breathed into" the scriptures something that was lacking after the authors were done their job. Because that's what inspiration means; a breathing into. If that is not what is believed, then teachers and pastors need to use a different word and stop deceiving people.

    If theopneustos means breathed out, then don't twist it to mean breathed into. The scriptures are breathed out by God into the world. The process by which this happened is that God "moved" (carried along) holy men to speak. This is inspiration. When He does this He also superintends the process to ensure perfection.
    Last edited by George Affleck; August 3rd, 2018 at 09:30 AM. Reason: grammar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    About ten posts ago we entered the realm of 'Wide and Shallow' where hundreds of separate threads could be spawned and far too many parts of posts do not get proper attention. But I am going to resist the temptation to comment fully and concentrate on the portion highlighted in red as being the key issue.

    The answer to that portion in red is; "English does not work that way."
    The word 'inspired' denotes an action; in this case a spiritual, supernatural one. As such it cannot describe a present condition. It would be just as silly to say that scripture is expired, but that is closer to the truth.

    The church fathers used Latin as their preferred language to establish Christian doctrine. They got the translation from Greek to Latin wrong in the Vulgate because 'inspirata' means to blow into. They should have used 'expirata' - to blow out, which more accurately reflects the meaning of 'theopneustos'. But they did not and this idea hung around within the church and, as a result of ecumenical influence, it's seeping into Protestant orthodoxy once more. It is not surprising that the New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition , a version approved by the Vatican, has "inspired by God". 'Inspired' has become accepted by some Christians as a quality which the Bible exhibits and questioning it to get at the truth is frowned upon.

    The only way to reconcile this view of inspiration is to believe that God "breathed into" the scriptures something that was lacking after the authors were done their job. Because that's what inspiration means; a breathing into. If that is not what is believed, then teachers and pastors need to use a different word and stop deceiving people.

    If theopneustos means breathed out, then don't twist it to mean breathed into. The scriptures are breathed out by God into the world. The process by which this happened is that God "moved" (carried along) holy men to speak. This is inspiration. When He does this He also superintends the process to ensure perfection.

    Before I read your reply , I'd like an answer to a question I asked you a couple of days ago . What is your background that would lend credence to your words ? How have you been taught , and who have you been taught by , or a least been influenced by .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faither View Post
    Before I read your reply , I'd like an answer to a question I asked you a couple of days ago . What is your background that would lend credence to your words ? How have you been taught , and who have you been taught by , or a least been influenced by .
    I might as well say I am basically self-taught, or biblically taught.

    My background is Reformed Baptist with a couple of years of seminary. I did that because, when I was saved by grace, I was 25 and had nearly zero Christian input up until then. I needed to catch up. No degrees.
    I served for 3 years in a small pastorate and then began raising a family.

    However, I need nothing to lend credence to my words except as they agree with the Word of God.
    Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    I might as well say I am basically self-taught, or biblically taught.

    My background is Reformed Baptist with a couple of years of seminary. I did that because, when I was saved by grace, I was 25 and had nearly zero Christian input up until then. I needed to catch up. No degrees.
    I served for 3 years in a small pastorate and then began raising a family.

    However, I need nothing to lend credence to my words except as they agree with the Word of God.

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    About ten posts ago we entered the realm of 'Wide and Shallow' where hundreds of separate threads could be spawned and far too many parts of posts do not get proper attention. But I am going to resist the temptation to comment fully and concentrate on the portion highlighted in red as being the key issue.

    The answer to that portion in red is; "English does not work that way."
    The word 'inspired' denotes an action; in this case a spiritual, supernatural one. As such it cannot describe a present condition. It would be just as silly to say that scripture is expired, but that is closer to the truth.

    The church fathers used Latin as their preferred language to establish Christian doctrine. They got the translation from Greek to Latin wrong in the Vulgate because 'inspirata' means to blow into. They should have used 'expirata' - to blow out, which more accurately reflects the meaning of 'theopneustos'. But they did not and this idea hung around within the church and, as a result of ecumenical influence, it's seeping into Protestant orthodoxy once more. It is not surprising that the New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition , a version approved by the Vatican, has "inspired by God". 'Inspired' has become accepted by some Christians as a quality which the Bible exhibits and questioning it to get at the truth is frowned upon.

    The only way to reconcile this view of inspiration is to believe that God "breathed into" the scriptures something that was lacking after the authors were done their job. Because that's what inspiration means; a breathing into. If that is not what is believed, then teachers and pastors need to use a different word and stop deceiving people.

    If theopneustos means breathed out, then don't twist it to mean breathed into. The scriptures are breathed out by God into the world. The process by which this happened is that God "moved" (carried along) holy men to speak. This is inspiration. When He does this He also superintends the process to ensure perfection.

    Lol , ya that pretty much ignored all the mechanics I presented .

    Your understanding would only be possible in the OT , before the helper was given to those He accepts , an external breath . In the NT , it's an internal breath , part of God's paradoxical framework.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faither View Post
    Lol , ya that pretty much ignored all the mechanics I presented .

    Your understanding would only be possible in the OT , before the helper was given to those He accepts , an external breath . In the NT , it's an internal breath , part of God's paradoxical framework.
    You don't have any mechanics. You have only your hobby-horse theology that you ride into every battle.

    There is no "God's paradoxical framework". If there were, He would have told us.
    You can't even present it in a reasonable, understandable fashion.
    Somebody sold you ear-tickling, snake oil, a panacea, and you're determined to convince everyone that your investment was worth every penny.

    Yes, I ignored your non-mechanics.
    Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    You might need to define "inspired." On the face of it, you cannot get away from inspiration if you want the Bible to be accurate. For instance, descriptions of things where people were not witnesses had to be inspired, as in, God had to provide those descriptions.

    Genesis 1 had to be inspired if it is to be possibly true.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    I did not address this comment. Sorry, I meant to.

    With regard to events that occurred before there were witnesses:
    Why is a human witness required?

    Scenario: Adam one day said; "BTW, how did you do all this? and where did I come from?". God told him and it became part of an oral tradition that was finally committed to writing in Moses' day.
    Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    With regard to events that occurred before there were witnesses: Why is a human witness required?
    Because then it would require God's input for the words to be written accurately, which sounds like it would justify the description "inspired."
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
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    Here's a post Town desperately wants you to read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    You don't have any mechanics. You have only your hobby-horse theology that you ride into every battle.

    There is no "God's paradoxical framework". If there were, He would have told us.
    You can't even present it in a reasonable, understandable fashion.
    Somebody sold you ear-tickling, snake oil, a panacea, and you're determined to convince everyone that your investment was worth every penny.

    Yes, I ignored your non-mechanics.

    Really George , your going into deception mode .

    You really did something good when you humbled yourself by admitting to the members you are self taught . All here are ! The difference is you admitted it ! That's huge with me , and things like that get God's attention more importantly .

    Now you go backwards in the face of what God is putting in front of you and attacking it with misrepresentation and name-calling.

    Let's go back to the beginning , I still think you have a true desire to know Him better . Cut out the childish replies , there's plenty of others who cover that .

    1 ) God while on Earth was 100% God and 100% man 100% of the time , at the same time .
    2) God the Father , the Son , and the Holy Spirit are one entity , and 3 separate entities , all the time , at the same time .

    Here are two basic paradoxical understandings of God's world , that must be accepted going out the gate of Christianity . You don't see these as paradoxes that are normal in God's world , but abnormal in ours ?

    I don't claim to be one of the rare gifted teachers God gives to perfect the saints or called out ones . But I absolutely claim to be able to point out the stumbling blocks if I see one infront of someone like yourself . If you choose to accept the warning or not is on you .

    You on the other hand , could be one of those rare gifted teachers . You have that gift of communication that I'll never claim to have . But you will never know unless you begin to faithe into Him correctly . And that begins by understanding pisteuo correctly .

    I think that ends our dialogue with each other , unless you want to get real ! I have something for you that could help , but you'd have to give me your email . Pm me if that desire is there .

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