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Thread: The Gospel Verses Predestination

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I don't know. Luke 15:10 says that there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repents. Its like they don't know who will repent and come to Christ.
    Is God Omniscient?
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Is God Omniscient?

    The Spirit of God is in the whole universe. He created everything and is sustaining everything. So we must conclude that God Omniscient. However, there are some things that he only sees and knows "In Christ". He is holy beyond human comprehension. If it were not for Christ, he would have wrapped up the whole universe in one big ball of fire when Adam sinned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    If Paul wanted to, could he have rejected Jesus' offer of salvation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    May I butt in?

    You are asking a Calvinist if Paul had a free will. Calvinist believe that no one has a free will. They believe that we are just a bunch of dumb robots that can't think for themselves. This thinking dishonors God and insults his Son Jesus Christ.
    Best not to butt in, Robert, especially when you do not know what or who you are talking about.

    If Paul wanted to reject the call of the Lord then he was never called and Scripture would give us an entirely different accounting.

    Those salvifically called are quickened from death to life (Eze. 36:26; Romans 8:30). Those so called will want to accept the call per their own free will—their greatest inclinations at the moment they so choose—for their greatest inclinations at the instant of their quickening are to not not reject the call.

    As Romans 8:30 teaches, no one rejects the salvific call of the Lord.

    God does as He pleases, only as He pleases, always as He pleases. None can thwart Him, none can hinder Him. So His own Word expressly declares: "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure" (Isa 46:10); "He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand" (Dan 4:35).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I don't know. Luke 15:10 says that there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repents. Its like they don't know who will repent and come to Christ.
    Angels are not omniscient, Robert. God is.

    AMR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    God predestinated the nation of Israel.
    Predestination as used in Scripture refers to salvific events. God is not saving geographies, Robert. God setting aside a people of a nation, Israel, to be the conduit of His special revelation, the OT Scriptures, and to preserve said revelation is not implying each and every Israelite was actually saved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    God also predestinated prophets and the apostles for the sole purpose of making known to the world his Son Jesus Christ.
    What did this predestination of prophets and apostles actually comprise, Robert? Was any violence done to their wills by God? What does predestination here mean to you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Angels are not omniscient, Robert. God is.

    AMR
    Angels are spiritual beings that have been created by God. They are mentioned in the Bible about 290 times. They have a free will and can rebel against God as Satan did. Angels will play an important part in the return of Christ. Because they are spiritual they can hear and see things that we can't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Best not to butt in, Robert, especially when you do not know what or who you are talking about.

    If Paul wanted to reject the call of the Lord then he was never called and Scripture would give us an entirely different accounting.

    Those salvifically called are quickened from death to life (Eze. 36:26; Romans 8:30). Those so called will want to accept the call per their own free will—their greatest inclinations at the moment they so choose—for their greatest inclinations at the instant of their quickening are to not not reject the call.

    As Romans 8:30 teaches, no one rejects the salvific call of the Lord.

    God does as He pleases, only as He pleases, always as He pleases. None can thwart Him, none can hinder Him. So His own Word expressly declares: "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure" (Isa 46:10); "He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand" (Dan 4:35).

    AMR

    God is sovereign only within his holy just nature. God cannot and will not sin or do evil. God does nothing outside of his Son Jesus Christ. This is why predestination is a false doctrine. In order for sinful man to be saved he must be reconciled to God by his Son Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. No reconciliation no salvation.

    This is why no one has been predestinated. God does not predestinate lost sinners to salvation. If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and ask him to save you, Romans 10:13.

    Jesus has provided salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. The ball is now in humanities court. Only those that respond to the Gospel will be saved. In the book of Acts only those that heard Peter's Gospel and believed it were saved, Acts 2:41.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Predestination as used in Scripture refers to salvific events. God is not saving geographies, Robert. God setting aside a people of a nation, Israel, to be the conduit of His special revelation, the OT Scriptures, and to preserve said revelation is not implying each and every Israelite was actually saved.


    What did this predestination of prophets and apostles actually comprise, Robert? Was any violence done to their wills by God? What does predestination here mean to you?

    AMR

    Like I said before, God predestinated prophets and apostles for the sole purpose of making known to the world his Son Jesus Christ. All of the apostles except for John died violent deaths at the hands of the religious. I have to leave right now. Will address this later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The people that Christ died for are the people of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

    salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

    It is a free gift from God, Romans 5:15-18.
    Your message is totally against Christ and presents His death as a failure to save everyone He died for. Thats not the Gospel of Christ !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Your message is totally against Christ and presents His death as a failure to save everyone He died for. Thats not the Gospel of Christ !
    Precisely !
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    There is no grace in a God that damns billions to hell for no reason.

    True that we are all slaves to sin, this why God sent Jesus into the world to defeat sin, death and the devil. salvation is a free gift from God that can be either rejected or received.

    "Therefore by the offence of one (Adam) judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Christ) THE FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life" Romans 5:18.

    You need to receive what God has provided for you in Jesus Christ. We do that by simple child like faith.

    "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

    Calling on Christ to save you is an act of faith. If you were drowning you would call on the lifeguard to save you, would you not? Jesus and Jesus alone is the one that can save you. If you don't respond to what he has done for you, you will perish.

    You are in denial of the Gospel and justification by faith.
    What?! You think there is no reason to damn all humanity to hell? Do you have no understanding of God's moral law? Do you have NO understanding of justice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    What?! You think there is no reason to damn all humanity to hell? Do you have no understanding of God's moral law? Do you have NO understanding of justice?

    You don't understand the fact that God takes full responsibility for the sins of his created beings. It is not our fault that we are sinners, Its Adam's fault. Eve was beguiled by the serpent and caused Adam to sin. God did not cause Adam to sin, but he takes full responsibility for his sins. This is why he sent Jesus into the world to save the world, 1 John 2:2.

    Jesus comes into the world to undo what Adam did. We are the sinners, we are the ones that should be crucified. But God doesn't punish us, instead he punishes our representative for our sins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Your message is totally against Christ and presents His death as a failure to save everyone He died for. Thats not the Gospel of Christ !
    Salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. But you don't believe it because you don't believe the Bible. None of you Calvinist do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The people that Christ died for are the people of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

    salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

    It is a free gift from God, Romans 5:15-18.
    So you're a universalist. Say hi to Hitler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    So you're a universalist. Say hi to Hitler.

    Nope. A universalist believes that everyone will be saved regardless of what they do or believe.

    The Bible teaches that only those that have faith in Christ will be saved, Ephesians 2:8.

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