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Thread: The Gospel Verses Predestination

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The FACT remains. There is no scripture that says anyone has been predestinated to heaven or to hell.

    If this were a true doctrine the Bible would be full of it. There is nothing.

    They that Christ tasted death for must receive God's great free gift of salvation, or they like you will perish.
    The fact remains you deny the Saving efficacy of Christ death.

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    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The FACT remains. There is no scripture that says anyone has been predestinated to heaven or to hell.
    Robert,

    Please exegete Romans 8:30 cited earlier above by you.

    Romans 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

    Who are the predestined that were also called, and were also justified and glorified?

    If these "who" are on their way to glory (heaven), explain your dogmatic "FACT" assertion above.

    AMR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Robert,

    Please exegete Romans 8:30 cited earlier above by you.

    Romans 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

    Who are the predestined that were also called, and were also justified and glorified?

    If these "who" are on their way to glory (heaven), explain your dogmatic "FACT" assertion above.

    AMR

    God predestinated Jesus to be the savior of the whole world. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed by the doing and the dying of Jesus. Jesus now sits at the right hand of God as the "King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. Jesus's acceptance into heaven is our acceptance. We are accepted only in him.

    In the light of that we will examine Romans 8:30.

    We were predestinated "In Christ" as was the whole world. Every human being on this earth is called by the Holy Spirit to come to Christ, Some come, some don't. Those that do come to Christ are justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30 and will be glorified. Those that don't are the lost.

    The Bible knows nothing about an individual predestination. God is no respecter of persons. Everything that God does, he does in, by and through Jesus Christ.

    To say that man does not have a free will is really a very stupid statement.

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    Calvinism is an attempt to get around the Gospel and justification by faith and justification by Christ. It is another Gospel and is a false Gospel. There is no salvation outside of Christ, Colossians 1:14-19. Jesus has ALREADY reconciled the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Making predestination worthless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    In the light of that we will examine Romans 8:30.

    We were predestinated "In Christ" as was the whole world. Every human being on this earth is called by the Holy Spirit to come to Christ, Some come, some don't. Those that do come to Christ are justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30 and will be glorified. Those that don't are the lost.
    Romans 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

    The passage actually states that those predestined were also called, Robert. Those called "He also justified" and "He also glorified". It is clear from the passage "whom He called, these He also justified" and "whom He justified, these He also glorified". You simply cannot make this mean every human being is called, else every human being would be also justified and glorified, per the verse before us.

    Follow the connective phrases in the passage:

    Moreover whom He predestined,
    these He also called; <--who were called? whom He predestined.
    whom He called,
    these He also justified; and <--who were justified? whom he called.
    whom He justified,
    these He also glorified. <--who were glorified? whom He justified.

    There is nothing in the passage that allows for exceptions to be made, as in your "some come, some don't". Romans 8:30 is plainly stating that each and every one who were called, are justified, and are glorified.

    Please do justice to Romans 8:30 by not trying to make it carry more exegetical freight than what is actually written. It does not read:

    Moreover whom He predestined, some He also called; whom He called, He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    To say that man does not have a free will is really a very stupid statement.
    Who is actually making this statement, Robert? Until you actually define what you mean by "free will", you seem to be building a straw man here.

    I certainly do not deny free will. I have actually defined what I mean by the term. I have asked you twice to define your terms, too.

    AMR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Calvinism is an attempt to get around the Gospel and justification by faith and justification by Christ. It is another Gospel and is a false Gospel. There is no salvation outside of Christ, Colossians 1:14-19. Jesus has ALREADY reconciled the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Making predestination worthless.
    You teach sinners Christ died for are still lost. Thats a denial that Christ Blood saves them it was shed for.

    Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
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    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Romans 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

    The passage actually states that those predestined were also called, Robert. Those called "He also justified" and "He also glorified". It is clear from the passage "whom He called, these He also justified" and "whom He justified, these He also glorified". You simply cannot make this mean every human being is called, else every human being would be also justified and glorified, per the verse before us.

    Follow the connective phrases in the passage:

    Moreover whom He predestined,
    these He also called; <--who were called? whom He predestined.
    whom He called,
    these He also justified; and <--who were justified? whom he called.
    whom He justified,
    these He also glorified. <--who were glorified? whom He justified.

    There is nothing in the passage that allows for exceptions to be made, as in your "some come, some don't". Romans 8:30 is plainly stating that each and every one who were called, are justified, and are glorified.

    Please do justice to Romans 8:30 by not trying to make it carry more exegetical freight than what is actually written. It does not read:

    Moreover whom He predestined, some He also called; whom He called, He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.


    Who is actually making this statement, Robert? Until you actually define what you mean by "free will", you seem to be building a straw man here.

    I certainly do not deny free will. I have actually defined what I mean by the term. I have asked you twice to define your terms, too.

    AMR

    As long as you continue to deny that Jesus is the savior of the WHOLE WORLD, you will remain in darkness, John 12:47, plus many other scriptures.

    As long as you continue to deny that salvation has been provided for everyone, you will remain in darkness, Hebrews 2:9, plus many other scriptures.

    It is not good to build a theology on one scripture such as Romans 8:30. The whole New Testament teaches that salvation is by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8 plus many other scriptures.

    All of the prophets and the apostles were predestinated by God for the sole purpose of making known to the world the purpose of his Son Jesus Christ. THERE IS NO PREDESTINATION WITHOUT A PURPOSE. If Calvinist were preaching the Gospel then it might be different, unfortunately most Calvinist don't know what the Gospel is, much less preach it.

    You are not able to answer this question. If Jesus has ALREADY reconciled the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19, then why does anyone need to be predestinated?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    As long as you continue to deny that Jesus is the savior of the WHOLE WORLD, you will remain in darkness, John 12:47, plus many other scriptures.

    As long as you continue to deny that salvation has been provided for everyone, you will remain in darkness, Hebrews 2:9, plus many other scriptures.

    It is not good to build a theology on one scripture such as Romans 8:30. The whole New Testament teaches that salvation is by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8 plus many other scriptures.

    All of the prophets and the apostles were predestinated by God for the sole purpose of making known to the world the purpose of his Son Jesus Christ. THERE IS NO PREDESTINATION WITHOUT A PURPOSE. If Calvinist were preaching the Gospel then it might be different, unfortunately most Calvinist don't know what the Gospel is, much less preach it.

    You are not able to answer this question. If Jesus has ALREADY reconciled the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19, then why does anyone need to be predestinated?
    You continue to deny the Saving Efficacy of Christ Blood.

    Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    You continue to deny the Saving Efficacy of Christ Blood.

    Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

    No I don't. I believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the world, 2 Corinthians 5:19. I also believe that salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

    If anyone is in denial of the Saving Efficacy of Christ Blood it is you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    No I don't. I believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the world, 2 Corinthians 5:19. I also believe that salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

    If anyone is in denial of the Saving Efficacy of Christ Blood it is you.
    Your teachings undermine the Gospel, they deny the saving success of the Person and Work Of Jesus Christ as Saviour !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    pate

    No I don't.
    Yes you do. Dont you believe sinners Christ died for will nevertheless be lost ? Yes or No ?
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    pate



    Yes you do. Dont you believe sinners Christ died for will nevertheless be lost ? Yes or No ?

    Not everyone wants to be saved. What makes you think that God is going to take people to heaven that don't want to be there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    .

    According to scripture salvation has been provided for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9.

    Your problem and the problem with most Calvinist is that you don't believe the Bible. You would rather believe the heretic John Calvin.

    Your Calvinist God is a devisive and is a villain.

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