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Thread: The will of God vs the will of man

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    False.

    False.

    False

    You are trying to trot out the false doctrine of "Original Sin"/"Total Depravity" and use that as proof that God did not give mankind free-will?

    No, God did not make Adam and Eve eat from the fruit of the tree of Total Depravity.
    Adam and Eve ate from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of GOOD and evil of their own free-will.

    That means that we, their descendants, are not forced into Total Depravity as you claim.
    Instead we have the free-will to choose good or choose evil.
    You deny scripture. You are a heretic. Good bye.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    You deny scripture.
    I do not deny scripture.
    People that deny that God gave us the free-will to choose to love Him or choose to hate Him are the ones that deny scripture.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    That would include the ability to choose how much we serve, how well we serve, and whether we can change who or what we serve over time.

    Agreed !!
    Absolutely 100% !!
    That is the NT faithing life .

    I would add , the more God puts opportunities in our path to perfect the surrendering of our life and will to Him , He accually does what we choose and takes more of our will .

    Ultimately , the more our faith and faithing are perfected by God via our choices , it will be harder to get out of God's will , than it is to stay in it .

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    You deny scripture. You are a heretic. Good bye.
    You are a heavy duty denier of scripture! But that is your freewill to be so.
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    [QUOTE=Faither;5262986]

    I would add , the more God puts opportunities in our path to perfect the surrendering of our life and will to Him , He accually does what we choose and takes more of our will .
    God doesn't give us overcoming life. He gives us life as we overcome.

    Ultimately , the more our faith and faithing are perfected by God via our choices.. .. .
    "Our choices"?? Exactly! By our obedience to the "choice set in God's will" which will increase our faith. God doesn't follow us. We follow Him that is, if you are born-again by which we can only learn "His ways". If you aren't then the whole thing becomes academic with no Godhead DNA in it.

    Our faith is increased by our obedience, perfected in righteousness which is the Foundation of God's Throne. unless you want to believe Jesus did not have to obey to make it through to His ressurection?

    Perfected = Glorified.
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    [QUOTE=Cross Reference;5263051]
    Quote Originally Posted by Faither View Post



    God doesn't give us overcoming life. He gives us life as we overcome.



    "Our choices"?? Exactly! By our obedience to the "choice set in God's will" which will increase our faith. God doesn't follow us. We follow Him that is, if you are born-again by which we can only learn "His ways". If you aren't then the whole thing becomes academic with no Godhead DNA in it.

    Our faith is increased by our obedience, perfected in righteousness which is the Foundation of God's Throne. unless you want to believe Jesus did not have to obey to make it through to His ressurection?

    Perfected = Glorified.
    A wonderfully man-centered answer. All hail man! Bow down to man! Glory be to man! (smh)

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    [QUOTE=MennoSota;5263071]
    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    A wonderfully man-centered answer. All hail man! Bow down to man! Glory be to man! (smh)
    I don't read or reply to Crs posts . This quote he presented as mine is not mine .

    Obedience on its own is is what Christ fulfilled for us . For us to think we can be in Christ by obedience alone is trampling on the blood of Christ and His work on Calvary .

    Beware of those who push that understanding infront of Faith and faithing !

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    You 2 have more stuff with you than a Christmas turkey. You don't even know who you are quoting,never mind you are saying nothing while in your willful ignorance.
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    John 6:35-40,43-44
    [35]Jesus replied, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
    [36]But you haven’t believed in me even though you have seen me.
    [37]However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.
    [38]For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will.
    [39]And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day.
    [40]For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day.”
    [43]But Jesus replied, “Stop complaining about what I said.
    [44]For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up.

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    Romans 9:2-33
    [2]My heart is filled with bitter sorrow and unending grief
    [3]for my people, my Jewish brothers and sisters. I would be willing to be forever cursed—cut off from Christ!—if that would save them.
    [4]They are the people of Israel, chosen to be God’s adopted children. God revealed his glory to them. He made covenants with them and gave them his law. He gave them the privilege of worshiping him and receiving his wonderful promises.
    [5]Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.
    [6]Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promise to Israel? No, for not all who are born into the nation of Israel are truly members of God’s people!
    [7]Being descendants of Abraham doesn’t make them truly Abraham’s children. For the Scriptures say, “Isaac is the son through whom your descendants will be counted,” though Abraham had other children, too.
    [8]This means that Abraham’s physical descendants are not necessarily children of God. Only the children of the promise are considered to be Abraham’s children.
    [9]For God had promised, “I will return about this time next year, and Sarah will have a son.”
    [10]This son was our ancestor Isaac. When he married Rebekah, she gave birth to twins.
    [11]But before they were born, before they had done anything good or bad, she received a message from God. (This message shows that God chooses people according to his own purposes;
    [12]he calls people, but not according to their good or bad works.) She was told, “Your older son will serve your younger son.”
    [13]In the words of the Scriptures, “I loved Jacob, but I rejected Esau.”
    [14]Are we saying, then, that God was unfair? Of course not!
    [15]For God said to Moses, “I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose.”
    [16]So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it.
    [17]For the Scriptures say that God told Pharaoh, “I have appointed you for the very purpose of displaying my power in you and to spread my fame throughout the earth.”
    [18]So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen.
    [19]Well then, you might say, “Why does God blame people for not responding? Haven’t they simply done what he makes them do?”
    [20]No, don’t say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to argue with God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, “Why have you made me like this?”
    [21]When a potter makes jars out of clay, doesn’t he have a right to use the same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw garbage into?
    [22]In the same way, even though God has the right to show his anger and his power, he is very patient with those on whom his anger falls, who are destined for destruction.
    [23]He does this to make the riches of his glory shine even brighter on those to whom he shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory.
    [24]And we are among those whom he selected, both from the Jews and from the Gentiles.
    [25]Concerning the Gentiles, God says in the prophecy of Hosea, “Those who were not my people, I will now call my people. And I will love those whom I did not love before.”
    [26]And, “Then, at the place where they were told, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘children of the living God.’”
    [27]And concerning Israel, Isaiah the prophet cried out, “Though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand of the seashore, only a remnant will be saved.
    [28]For the lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth quickly and with finality.”
    [29]And Isaiah said the same thing in another place: “If the lord of Heaven’s Armies had not spared a few of our children, we would have been wiped out like Sodom, destroyed like Gomorrah.”
    [30]What does all this mean? Even though the Gentiles were not trying to follow God’s standards, they were made right with God. And it was by faith that this took place.
    [31]But the people of Israel, who tried so hard to get right with God by keeping the law, never succeeded.
    [32]Why not? Because they were trying to get right with God by keeping the law instead of by trusting in him. They stumbled over the great rock in their path.
    [33]God warned them of this in the Scriptures when he said, “I am placing a stone in Jerusalem that makes people stumble, a rock that makes them fall. But anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”

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    As I have mentioned...God is the one who determines whom it is that will be saved. The number of passages and verses that speak to this truth vastly outnumber the couple of sentences that free-will folks take out of context. Jesus and Paul prove free-will to be a fallacious philosophy.

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    . . . . <Stuffing>
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    . . . . <Stuffing>
    Close your eyes and plug your nose and you think turkey is stuffing. You prove that with your response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    As I have mentioned...God is the one who determines whom it is that will be saved. The number of passages and verses that speak to this truth vastly outnumber the couple of sentences that free-will folks take out of context. Jesus and Paul prove free-will to be a fallacious philosophy.

    The Lord's prayer !

    It's not called the Lord's prayer because He prayed it , He suggested that we pray it .

    Our Father who art in heaven , hallowed be thy name . Thy kingdom come , " thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven ."

    Why would Christ tell us to pray for the will of the Father to be done on Earth , meaning in faithers , if we already had it according to you ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faither View Post
    The Lord's prayer !

    It's not called the Lord's prayer because He prayed it , He suggested that we pray it .

    Our Father who art in heaven , hallowed be thy name . Thy kingdom come , " thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven ."

    Why would Christ tell us to pray for the will of the Father to be done on Earth , meaning in faithers , if we already had it according to you ?
    Words mean something I believe you have yet to understand why:

    Jesus didn't suggest anytning of the sort. He gave direction. Jesus said "pray in this manner" . . . .
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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