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Thread: Jesus, Paul and the Law

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    "they had better..."

    That's law. You're putting a burden on believers whom not even the fathers of Israel couldn't bear.

    You're trying to get people to put themselves under a curse, to get people to cut off their flesh to be holy, which isn't possible for man. Only Christ who is God is holy, and he already fulfilled the law. Yet you insist on removing the nails from Christ's hands and saying "no, let me keep the law so that I can be holy."
    Just listen to the error that you say!

    You say it is a curse to obey Jesus' words!

    If you would only not harden your heart to what I am saying.

    Jesus' words are Spirit and full of life.

    Jesus came with grace, he taught how to have faith in him and that forgiveness comes from him. Jesus teaches what kind of heart to have so that he could live in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Under the old law, the people had to be justified to be a child of God.
    God gave them certain works to do to purify themselves.
    The people had to do all that purifying/cleaning/justifying themselves.
    They had to do different external baths before they could go to the temple where God's Spirit was, they had to adhere to a special diet, and they had a priest who performed many things with sacrificed animals, to clean the people.
    Since Jesus shed his blood on the cross, he is the Sacrificed Lamb once and for all; and his blood cleans us, and all we have to do is have faith that it does, but we still have to do what Jesus taught while he walked the earth, and that was to repent and believe in him.
    No one has to get circumcised and offer animals anymore and go to the temple to be near God, for Jesus is our circumcision and we become the temple.
    We still have to do what Jesus says to do when he walked the earth. We have to have faith, which Jesus taught. We have to repent of our sins; and we have to forgive others.



    Who but Satan would be behind preaching we don't have to obey Jesus?
    You keep adding works as your means of maintaining salvation. You nullify grace. You are a Judaiser by your own comments. God's children can see your error. They realize your words do not come from God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    You keep adding works as your means of maintaining salvation. You nullify grace. You are a Judaiser by your own comments. God's children can see your error. They realize your words do not come from God.
    Jesus says his works are light and easy and not burdensome.

    Paul did not preach against what Jesus says to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Just listen to the error that you say!

    You say it is a curse to obey Jesus' words!

    If you would only not harden your heart to what I am saying.

    Jesus' words are Spirit and full of life.

    Jesus came with grace, he taught how to have faith in him and that forgiveness comes from him. Jesus teaches what kind of heart to have so that he could live in it.
    O foolish GT! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed to you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish, GT? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify you by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    (Galatians 3)

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Jesus says his works are light and easy and not burdensome.

    Paul did not preach against what Jesus says to do.
    Read verse 27 of Matthew 11. No works necessary. We will do good works because God's gift of faith causes us to do good works. But good works are not demanded in order for God's chosen children to remain adopted by God.
    All God, nothing of myself.

    Matthew 11:25-30
    [25]At that time Jesus prayed this prayer: “O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike.
    [26]Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way!
    [27]“My Father has entrusted everything to me. No one truly knows the Son except the Father, and no one truly knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
    [28]Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.
    [29]Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
    [30]For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Do you finally get it now that Paul taught what Jesus taught, and it is the same, it is to obey Jesus and repent of your sins.

    'Repent' doesn't mean 'turn to God'.
    'Repent' means to repent of your sins and have faith is to have faith that Jesus blood washes those sins away.
    False doctrine will stop people from being saved.
    Faith alone teachers hinder and stop many people from getting saved.
    Dead men cannot repent. Dead men will not repent. Those whom God makes alive can repent. These are the ones whom God gives the gift of faith so that they might believe, recognize their sin and repent.
    Only the elect can repent. The unredeemed will die in their trespasses and sins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    O foolish GT! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed to you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish, GT? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify you by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    (Galatians 3)
    They were talked into observing the old law's special days and they were talked into getting circumcised in the flesh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Read verse 27 of Matthew 11. No works necessary. We will do good works because God's gift of faith causes us to do good works. But good works are not demanded in order for God's chosen children to remain adopted by God.
    All God, nothing of myself.

    Matthew 11:25-30
    [25]At that time Jesus prayed this prayer: “O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike.
    [26]Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way!
    [27]“My Father has entrusted everything to me. No one truly knows the Son except the Father, and no one truly knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
    [28]Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.
    [29]Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
    [30]For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”
    Do you really think that Jesus is saying you don't have to weary yourself with not murdering and committing adultery anymore?

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Paul taught the same thing as Jesus.

    Jesus taught believe and obey him.

    Paul taught believe and obey Jesus.

    You are badly mistaken.
    Jesus taught that all whom He chooses will know God. Jesus taught that the Father gave him those who would be saved. Jesus taught that the sheep hear the shepherd's voice.

    Matthew 11:27

    [27]“My Father has entrusted everything to me. No one truly knows the Son except the Father, and no one truly knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”

    GT, your voice is that of the thief.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Do you really think that Jesus is saying you don't have to weary yourself with not murdering and committing adultery anymore?
    Did you read Matthew 11:27?
    Unless Jesus chooses you, your burdens remain. Unless Jesus takes off your burdens, your burdens remain.
    All God. None of me.
    Matthew 11:27
    [27]“My Father has entrusted everything to me. No one truly knows the Son except the Father, and no one truly knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
    [28]Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.
    [29]Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
    [30]For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Dead men cannot repent. Dead men will not repent. Those whom God makes alive can repent. These are the ones whom God gives the gift of faith so that they might believe, recognize their sin and repent.
    Only the elect can repent. The unredeemed will die in their trespasses and sins.
    The dead are those who don't desire to know God and to be saved.

    God does not cause people to obey in a supernatural way.

    God gives the Holy Spirit to those who get His teachings and obeys them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Did you read Matthew 11:27?
    Unless Jesus chooses you, your burdens remain. Unless Jesus takes off your burdens, your burdens remain.
    All God. None of me.
    Matthew 11:27
    [27]“My Father has entrusted everything to me. No one truly knows the Son except the Father, and no one truly knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
    [28]Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.
    [29]Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
    [30]For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”
    Jesus has a yoke. That means Jesus has work for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    The dead are those who don't desire to know God and to be saved.

    God does not cause people to obey in a supernatural way.

    God gives the Holy Spirit to those who get His teachings and obeys them.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    The dead are those who don't desire to know God and to be saved.

    God does not cause people to obey in a supernatural way.

    God gives the Holy Spirit to those who get His teachings and obeys them.
    That is ALL humanity! They are dead in their trespasses and sins.
    God CHOOSES to make them alive.
    God causes them to walk in step with Him through the gift of faith.
    Dead men cannot do anything. They are DEAD!
    God anoints His chosen ones with the Holy Spirit. You are attempting to be like Simon the Sorcerer and somehow purchase the Holy Spirit by your works.
    Acts of the Apostles 8:20-23
    [20]But Peter replied, “May your money be destroyed with you for thinking God’s gift can be bought!
    [21]You can have no part in this, for your heart is not right with God.
    [22]Repent of your wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive your evil thoughts,
    [23]for I can see that you are full of bitter jealousy and are held captive by sin.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Jesus has a yoke. That means Jesus has work for us.
    NO!
    Jesus was a Rabbi. The Yoke is Jesus teachings. Jesus is comparing his Rabbinical teaching against that of the Pharisees, the Sadducees and the Temple system. He is telling people that he does not place heavy burdens on them, because HE makes their burdens light by taking their burdens upon himself.
    It is ALL GOD, none of you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    That is ALL humanity! They are dead in their trespasses and sins.
    God CHOOSES to make them alive.
    NO WAY.
    JESUS says that there are those on the side of truth and they listen to him.

    Need scripture reference?

    Scripture says there are those who practice truth and they come to the light.

    Want scripture reference?

    Come on and ask me for them.

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