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Thread: Jesus, Paul and the Law

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    Jesus, Paul and the Law

    Many believe that there is a conflict between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught. There is no conflict. Both what Jesus taught and what Paul taught are very compatible with each other. Jesus was a teacher of the law. His purpose in teaching the law was to reveal the nature and character of God and the sinfulness of man. Jesus took the law of Moses and elevated it. He also spiritualized it. Many times Jesus would say...

    "You have heard it said by them of old time...but I say unto you".

    He would then either elevate the law of Moses or he would spiritualize it. A good example is Matthew 5:27-30. Under the law it was sin to commit adultery, but now if you look at a woman and lust after her you have already committed adultery with her in your heart, Matthew 5:28.

    The law now searches the thoughts and the intent of the heart, Hebrews 4:12. This is why Paul wrote,

    "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin" Romans 7:14

    Paul understood that he was a sinner, not because of his actions, but because he was born after Adam, Romans 5:12. This is why he said, "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

    It is not humanly possible to obey the law of Moses and the commandments of Jesus. The two great pillars of the law are...

    "You shall love God with all of your heart mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself" Matthew 22:37-40.

    The self righteous rich young ruler thought that he had kept all of the commandments of God from the time that he was a youth, but when Jesus said, "If you will be perfect, go and sell all that you have and give it to the poor" Matthew 19:21. If you are going to love your neighbor as yourself, then you will have to sell all that you have and give it to the poor. The scripture say that the rich young ruler went away sorrowfully because he had many possessions.

    It is not the purpose of the law to make one righteous as many seem to believe. The sole purpose of the law is to reveal the nature and character of God and to reveal the sinfulness of man. Paul wrote,

    "Now we know that what things so ever the law says, it says to them that are under the law: THAT EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL OF THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD. Therefor by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN" Romans 3:19-20.

    Jesus was trying to tell us that our standards fall short of what God requires. To some this is very obvious, to others they just don't seem to get it. The only thing that is going to pass in the judgment is the righteousness of Jesus Christ all other righteousness will disappear in a puff of smoke.

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    Some will say, "I follow the teachings of Jesus, but not Paul". What you are really saying is that you don't believe the Bible. No one will be saved without being justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Paul taught that we justified by faith because we are justified by Christ. Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18.

    To follow the teachings of Jesus is to follow the law and to be under the law. To be under the law is to be under a curse, Galatians 3:10. The law (teachings of Jesus) do not justify, even if you were able to keep the commandments, which you can't, you will not be justified.

    "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN" Romans 3:20.

    Anyone that reads the teaching of Jesus should know that they are sinners, simply because "for by the law is the knowledge of sin". No one measures up to God's standards, we all fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23.

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    Do you finally get it now that Paul taught what Jesus taught, and it is the same, it is to obey Jesus and repent of your sins.

    'Repent' doesn't mean 'turn to God'.
    'Repent' means to repent of your sins and have faith is to have faith that Jesus blood washes those sins away.
    False doctrine will stop people from being saved.
    Faith alone teachers hinder and stop many people from getting saved.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Do you finally get it now that Paul taught what Jesus taught, and it is the same, it is to obey Jesus and repent of your sins.

    'Repent' doesn't mean 'turn to God'.
    'Repent' means to repent of your sins and have faith is to have faith that Jesus blood washes those sins away.
    False doctrine will stop people from being saved.
    Faith alone teachers hinder and stop many people from getting saved.

    There was no conflict between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught, but they did not teach the same thing. Jesus never said that salvation was by grace through faith, nor was Paul a teacher of the law. Jesus purpose was to reveal the Father and to show men that they were sinners.

    The law will not produce righteousness, nor will it save.

    "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN" Romans 3:20.

    Jesus taught the law to show us that we don't measure up to God's standards.

    Paul said that righteousness and salvation come by faith in Christ and his Gospel and not by the works of the law.

    "And be found in him, not having my own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" Philippians 3:9.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    There was no conflict between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught, but they did not teach the same thing. Jesus never said that salvation was by grace through faith, nor was Paul a teacher of the law. Jesus purpose was to reveal the Father and to show men that they were sinners.

    The law will not produce righteousness, nor will it save.

    "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN" Romans 3:20.

    Jesus taught the law to show us that we don't measure up to God's standards.

    Paul said that righteousness and salvation come by faith in Christ and his Gospel and not by the works of the law.

    "And be found in him, not having my own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" Philippians 3:9.
    Paul taught the same thing as Jesus.

    Jesus taught believe and obey him.

    Paul taught believe and obey Jesus.

    You are badly mistaken.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    JESUS SPOKE-PAUL DEFINED
    Heb 4:12-16
    12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
    13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
    14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
    15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
    16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
    Matt 13:34-35
    34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
    35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world."
    (NKJ)
    Matt 4:4
    4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
    (NKJ)
    JESUS SPOKE IT
    Matt 12:31
    31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.
    (NKJ)
    PAUL DEFINED IT
    Heb 6:4-6
    4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
    5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
    6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
    (NKJ)
    JESUS SPOKE IT
    Mark 12:30-31
    30 'And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.
    31 "And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
    (NKJ)
    PETER DEFINED IT
    1 Pet 2:19-21
    19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.
    20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.
    21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
    JESUS SPOKE IT
    Matt 26:41
    41 "Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."
    (NKJ)
    PAUL DEFINED IT
    Rom 8:1-2
    1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
    2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
    (NKJ)
    JESUS SPOKE IT
    John 16:20-22
    20 "Most assuredly, I say to you that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice; and you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy.
    21 "A woman, when she is in labor, has sorrow because her hour has come; but as soon as she has given birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a human being has been born into the world.
    22 "Therefore you now have sorrow; but I will see you again and your heart will rejoice, and your joy no one will take from you.
    (NKJ)
    PAUL DEFINED IT
    Gal 5:17-24
    17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
    18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
    19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
    20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
    21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
    23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
    24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
    (NKJ)


    xxx Jesus spoke everything in parables. The apostles defined what Jesus said.


    Matt 13:34-35
    34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
    35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world."
    (NKJ)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    JESUS SPOKE-PAUL DEFINED
    Heb 4:12-16
    12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
    13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
    14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
    15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
    16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
    Matt 13:34-35
    34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
    35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world."
    (NKJ)
    Matt 4:4
    4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
    (NKJ)
    JESUS SPOKE IT
    Matt 12:31
    31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.
    (NKJ)
    PAUL DEFINED IT
    Heb 6:4-6
    4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
    5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
    6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
    (NKJ)
    JESUS SPOKE IT
    Mark 12:30-31
    30 'And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.
    31 "And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
    (NKJ)
    PETER DEFINED IT
    1 Pet 2:19-21
    19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.
    20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.
    21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
    JESUS SPOKE IT
    Matt 26:41
    41 "Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."
    (NKJ)
    PAUL DEFINED IT
    Rom 8:1-2
    1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
    2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
    (NKJ)
    JESUS SPOKE IT
    John 16:20-22
    20 "Most assuredly, I say to you that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice; and you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy.
    21 "A woman, when she is in labor, has sorrow because her hour has come; but as soon as she has given birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a human being has been born into the world.
    22 "Therefore you now have sorrow; but I will see you again and your heart will rejoice, and your joy no one will take from you.
    (NKJ)
    PAUL DEFINED IT
    Gal 5:17-24
    17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
    18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
    19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
    20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
    21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
    23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
    24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
    (NKJ)


    xxx Jesus spoke everything in parables. The apostles defined what Jesus said.


    Matt 13:34-35
    34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
    35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world."
    (NKJ)


    That is all good scripture, but you don't seem to get it.

    Jesus taught the law not as a way of righteousness. Righteousness is only by faith in Christ and his Gospel and not by the works of the law. "For by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

    Why do you suppose that thousands of people were converted to Christ on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. They had been following Jesus around listening to him preach the law. When Peter preached the Gospel they were all convicted of their sins and turned to Christ to be saved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Paul taught the same thing as Jesus.

    Jesus taught believe and obey him.

    Paul taught believe and obey Jesus.

    You are badly mistaken.

    You are not able to come to the truth.

    Paul said that the law will make you sin, Romans 7:7-12.

    The more you try to be holy by keeping the commandments, the more you will sin.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Robert Pate For Your Post:

    MennoSota (July 23rd, 2018),Tambora (July 17th, 2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You are not able to come to the truth.

    Paul said that the law will make you sin, Romans 7:7-12.

    The more you try to be holy by keeping the commandments, the more you will sin.
    Paul was speaking about those who were under the law and who did NOT HAVE FAITH.

    The old law was not based on faith.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Paul was speaking about those who were under the law and who did NOT HAVE FAITH.

    The old law was not based on faith.
    Welcome back GT!



    Rom. 5:6-8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Welcome back GT!



    Rom. 5:6-8.
    Thank you, Danoh.
    Last edited by God's Truth; July 17th, 2018 at 10:08 PM.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Paul was speaking about those who were under the law and who did NOT HAVE FAITH.

    The old law was not based on faith.

    If you need laws, rules, commandments then you probably don't have the Holy Spirit. It is the work of the Holy Spirit not the law to lead us. This is why a righteous man does not need the law.

    "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murders of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers" 1 Timothy 1:9.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If you need laws, rules, commandments then you probably don't have the Holy Spirit. It is the work of the Holy Spirit not the law to lead us. This is why a righteous man does not need the law.

    "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murders of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers" 1 Timothy 1:9.
    Jesus' words are Spirit and life and you can't toss them to the side as causing harm.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Jesus' words are Spirit and life and you can't toss them to the side as causing harm.

    You must think that the apostle Paul is a heretic.

    The words of Jesus are law. The purpose of the law is to reveal the righteousness of God and the sinfulness of man. God never intended for his people to live according to laws and rules. "The Just Shall Live By Faith" not rules, laws or religion. You have learned nothing from the example of the Pharisees, instead, you have become one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You must think that the apostle Paul is a heretic.
    No way do I think that. But you make him one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The words of Jesus are law.
    A new law based on grace and faith.
    Ignorance is no excuse for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post

    The purpose of the law is to reveal the righteousness of God and the sinfulness of man. God never intended for his people to live according to laws and rules.
    God says there are people who obeyed the old law blamelessly.
    Have you ever read the Bible or did you just read what you teachers say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    "The Just Shall Live By Faith" not rules, laws or religion. You have learned nothing from the example of the Pharisees, instead, you have become one.
    Jesus walked the earth and taught the people what faith is.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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