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Thread: Turning The Bible Into An Idol

  1. #16
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealityJerk View Post
    The reason you get so upset by the notion of a fallible bible, is because that's all you have. A book.
    Someone to you: My faith, the Holy Spirit says God is a woman.


    Prove that is not true.


    You wicked fraud.

    The LORD God has magnified that book, which you disparage, hate, above His name, you pawn of the devil.

    And all you have is your subjective mysticism, in making a God/"god" up from your own mind, not based upon objective words, from the source, the LORD God.
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealityJerk View Post
    The gospel message proves its self true by producing the new birth and a genuine encounter with the living God. Only those who are actually born again, understand that their relationship with God does not rely on a book or collection of writings. If that's all you have, then you need to be born again and filled with God's spirit. Your feelings about the bible being the infallible, inerrant word of God, are subjective. A subjective sentiment, not based on reason or God's spirit, but your own desire to keep God within your own little, self-defined safe zone. You have God all figured out, thanks to this book, and He can only function within the boundaries you've arbitrarily determined for Him, within your book (idol). You have your infallible, inerrant holy book and your infallible interpretation of that book to beat people over the head with and pretend you have some type of authority over them.

    Only those who actually have a relationship with God, who are really born again, can sense what is and isn't true in the bible. Their experience and relationship with God, informs and guides their judgement in respect to what is and isn't genuine currency. They are wise money changers, they can identify the counterfeit from the genuine currency, the wheat from the chaff. The only writings ever delivered to humanity, straight from heaven, were the ten commandments. The stories of the patriarchs and prophets were passed through an oral tradition, and later written down by unknown authors. This does't affect the true believer, the born again child of God, is not moved by the fact the bible isn't infallible, because whatever is true and important in the bible, has already been confirmed to them through their experience and relationship with God.

    The reason you get so upset by the notion of a fallible bible, is because that's all you have. A book. Faith is too scary and uncertain, so you emphasize absolute certainty/objectivity over the subjective, under the false assumption that what is subjective is less valuable and real than what is perceived with the five carnal senses. All you have is a religion, doctrines, verses to cite and hit people over the head with, but as far as being born again, quickened by the Holy Spirit and entering into a relationship with God. You know nothing of that, because it's "subjective". What is seen and objective however, derives from what is unseen and subjective.
    Tell all of TOL, how you/we/anyone would know of this gospel you reference, w/o the book, by which it is revealed. Go ahead. Let me guess:Your expounding what it is, your "instruction and illustrating" the gospel is the objective truth of what this gospel is, right, Rummy?

    Who says? You are infallible, have a "corner" on objective truth, through your Holy Spirit? Says who?
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealityJerk View Post
    The gospel message proves its self true by producing the new birth and a genuine encounter with the living God. Only those who are actually born again, understand that their relationship with God does not rely on a book or collection of writings. If that's all you have, then you need to be born again and filled with God's spirit. Your feelings about the bible being the infallible, inerrant word of God, are subjective. A subjective sentiment, not based on reason or God's spirit, but your own desire to keep God within your own little, self-defined safe zone. You have God all figured out, thanks to this book, and He can only function within the boundaries you've arbitrarily determined for Him, within your book (idol). You have your infallible, inerrant holy book and your infallible interpretation of that book to beat people over the head with and pretend you have some type of authority over them.

    Only those who actually have a relationship with God, who are really born again, can sense what is and isn't true in the bible. Their experience and relationship with God, informs and guides their judgement in respect to what is and isn't genuine currency. They are wise money changers, they can identify the counterfeit from the genuine currency, the wheat from the chaff. The only writings ever delivered to humanity, straight from heaven, were the ten commandments. The stories of the patriarchs and prophets were passed through an oral tradition, and later written down by unknown authors. This does't affect the true believer, the born again child of God, is not moved by the fact the bible isn't infallible, because whatever is true and important in the bible, has already been confirmed to them through their experience and relationship with God.

    The reason you get so upset by the notion of a fallible bible, is because that's all you have. A book. Faith is too scary and uncertain, so you emphasize absolute certainty/objectivity over the subjective, under the false assumption that what is subjective is less valuable and real than what is perceived with the five carnal senses. All you have is a religion, doctrines, verses to cite and hit people over the head with, but as far as being born again, quickened by the Holy Spirit and entering into a relationship with God. You know nothing of that, because it's "subjective". What is seen and objective however, derives from what is unseen and subjective.
    Someone to you: My faith, the Holy Spirit, tells me God is a woman, has 56 sons, and lives on the moon. My faith/The Holy Spirit tells me that.


    Agreed? If not, tell me why this person'e "faith" is wrong, this person's Holy Spirit is wrong, and yours/others' faith/Holy Spirit is correct, and that God is not a woman.........................

    Speaking of idolatry-we see your avatar, fraud.....
    Saint John W

  4. #19
    Old Timer RealityJerk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Someone to you: My faith, the Holy Spirit, tells me God is a woman, has 56 sons, and lives on the moon. My faith/The Holy Spirit tells me that.


    Agreed? If not, tell me why this person'e "faith" is wrong, this person's Holy Spirit is wrong, and yours/others' faith/Holy Spirit is correct, and that God is not a woman.........................

    Speaking of idolatry-we see your avatar, fraud.....

    There was no new testament book in the first or second century. There was no Christian bookstore, no Amazon.com, no where to buy your bible, because none of that existed 2000 years ago. The sayings of Christ, all of his works, and the message of the gospel, were past orally. Oral tradition. But that isn't enough, because if all that is transmitted is a lie, then there would be no fruit. No new birth experience, no real encounter with the Holy Spirit, no genuine spiritual power, no spiritual gifts, no miracles..etc. No bible, no book, is required to validate the reality of Christ. If you are truly born again, you would know that.

    If a spirit is telling you that the creator is a woman, with 50 children, or whatever nonsense you mentioned, then it's obviously not the Holy Spirit.

    If it makes you feel better to believe that God authored a specific collection of books, and every word written in those books is God's word, then believe that. But that belief is it self subjective. There is no way to know if a book is God's word, apart from a subjective, miraculous process, led by the spirit of God. You claim God guided you or someone else to identify what books are and aren't God's word, I claim your assumption that there is such a book, is groundless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealityJerk View Post
    There was no new testament book in the first or second century. There was no Christian bookstore, no Amazon.com, no where to buy your bible, because none of that existed 2000 years ago. The sayings of Christ, all of his works, and the message of the gospel, were past orally. Oral tradition. But that isn't enough, because if all that is transmitted is a lie, then there would be no fruit. No new birth experience, no real encounter with the Holy Spirit, no genuine spiritual power, no spiritual gifts, no miracles..etc. No bible, no book, is required to validate the reality of Christ. If you are truly born again, you would know that.

    If a spirit is telling you that the creator is a woman, with 50 children, or whatever nonsense you mentioned, then it's obviously not the Holy Spirit.

    If it makes you feel better to believe that God authored a specific collection of books, and every word written in those books is God's word, then believe that. But that belief is it self subjective. There is no way to know if a book is God's word, apart from a subjective, miraculous process, led by the spirit of God. You claim God guided you or someone else to identify what books are and aren't God's word, I claim your assumption that there is such a book, is groundless.
    I said
    The Apostles Wrote Everything Down As It Happened

    [Jhn 21:24-25
    24 This is the disciple who testifies of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his testimony is true.
    25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.
    [Gal 1:15-19
    15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called [me] through His grace,
    16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,
    17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those [who were] apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
    18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days.
    19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord's brother.
    [2Ti 4:13
    13 Bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas when you come--and the books, especially the parchments.

    xxx The disciples wrote everything down as it happened. They wrote it on parchments, and books. They had the old testament books.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    The Apostles Wrote Everything Down As It Happened



    your an idiot

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    way 2 go (Yesterday)

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post


    your an idiot

    I said
    lolololol Your back on the job.

  10. #23
    Old Timer RealityJerk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    The Apostles Wrote Everything Down As It Happened

    [Jhn 21:24-25
    24 This is the disciple who testifies of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his testimony is true.
    25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.
    [Gal 1:15-19
    15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called [me] through His grace,
    16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,
    17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those [who were] apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
    18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days.
    19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord's brother.
    [2Ti 4:13
    13 Bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas when you come--and the books, especially the parchments.

    xxx The disciples wrote everything down as it happened. They wrote it on parchments, and books. They had the old testament books.
    There is no evidence that the apostles were writing anything down while Jesus was alive. More, citing an unknown writer, claiming that the apostle John wrote the gospel that bears his name and is attributed to him by the church, doesn't objectively prove that John wrote that gospel. It doesn't prove he wrote it, nor does it prove that this gospel is the infallible word of God. But what's your point? I stated that Christians didn't have a New Testament bible in the first or second century, actually they didn't have a New Testament with 27 books until the 4th century.

    The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in AD 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In AD 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with one book of the Apocrypha) and 26 books of the New Testament (everything but Revelation) were canonical and to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (AD 393) and the Council of Carthage (AD 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative. Again, there was no "infallible" New Testament in the first or second century.

    Here is a very interesting study on the reformers and "biblical inerrancy":

    https://postbarthian.com/2017/03/05/...r-john-calvin/
    Last edited by RealityJerk; July 14th, 2018 at 01:46 PM. Reason: Typo Correction

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