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Thread: ‘My son is not the same’: New testimony paints bleak picture of family separation

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    ...we are the descendants of immigrants almost to a man...
    almost?

    who would you exclude?

    Quote Originally Posted by town
    ....this nation, superimposed on the bones of conquered peoples and largely stolen from those peoples

    how is this different from any other nation that has ever existed, including the ones we conquered?
    Last edited by ok doser; July 11th, 2018 at 08:28 PM.

  2. #107
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    Michael Avenatti is working to reunite children stolen from their parents, children used as pawns by our cruel and unusual president.

    Great speech here.

    So keep your candles burning

    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

  3. #108
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    So keep your candles burning

    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to annabenedetti For Your Post:

    Arthur Brain (July 12th, 2018)

  5. #109
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    HHS secretary Alex Azar, regarding the conditions in which separated immigrant children are being held:

    "It is one of the great acts of American generosity and charity, what we are doing for these unaccompanied kids."
    So keep your candles burning

    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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  7. #110
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    TH says...

    "I'm noting that we are the descendants of immigrants almost to a man".
    That's right.

    Being descendants of immigrants doesn't make you a nation of immigrants.
    It really does if you understand the point.

    It makes you a nation of citizens who still resemble the society the nation was founded upon.
    That's true as far as it goes, though it doesn't go far enough. Rather, say your grandparents were Irish. You lack that citizenship and you are the second generation to claim the U.S. as your home. You're still of Irish stock, bearing an Irish name. Whether or not you wed outside of that group, you understand the identity and probably share it to some extent.This nation was built by people not native to its lands and wave upon wave of similarly situated came to grow it into the mightiest nation on earth.

    A nation of immigrants is one where the original society is utterly destroyed and gone by the invading people's of other societies whose culture doesn't resemble our founding culture in the slightest.
    Well, no, though we did destroy the original cultures and societies that had claim to the land, put those who we didn't kill outright on reservations, increasingly poor in resource and value--or so we thought until there was nowhere else to move them and no excuse to justify it. Then they found oil on some of them.

    I admit it's headed that way since 1965 but it certainly wasn't that way before that time.
    As a percent of total population the largest waves of immigrants were likely between 1880 to 1920.

    In 1907 1.3 million immigrants entered this country legally. The population in 1907 was 19,280,000. So in 1907 nearly 15% of the national population was comprised of those people.

    In 2016, 1,018,000 people immigrated to the U.S. legally. The population of the country was 323,000,000. Do the math.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







  8. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    No. You're shifting the goalposts. We were talking about you when you brought up the emo schtick.
    no shifting of the goalposts - you presented a false dichotomy and I presented an alternative option



    Until you've lived through what they've lived through, you're in no place to judge them
    let's see if that makes sense, logically

    i never lived through the hyper-inflation and social collapse of the 20's and 30's in germany

    logically, therefore, I'm in no place to judge them for what they did after


    , you sitting there safely behind your keyboard.
    a saying you've used before, as if it indicts me

    for all you know, I'm on my android waiting for the next homeless person in line at the soup kitchen



    Do you think I don't read what they say at places like Breitbart, PJ media, etc.?
    if you do, you're ahead of me - I only happen upon those sites if a link take me there, or somebody else mentions them

  9. #112
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    no shifting of the goalposts - you presented a false dichotomy and I presented an alternative option
    Another name for "alternative facts", which is another name for "fake news." You guys spin new terms for dishonesty like it was cotton candy.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

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  11. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Another name for "alternative facts", which is another name for "fake news." You guys spin new terms for dishonesty like it was cotton candy.
    well no, but i wouldn't expect you to understand


    anna offered a false dichotomy in her choices between "trolling" and "sick inside"

    i offered a third possibility (there are more) of a difference in emotional response between her and me


    this has nothing to do with "alternative facts" gramps, except for the use of the word "alternative"

    now shake your cane at those pesky kids on your lawn and go back to your nap

  12. #114
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    Sod writes:
    no shifting of the goalposts - you presented a false dichotomy and I presented an alternative option
    Barbarian chuckles:
    Another name for "alternative facts", which is another name for "fake news." You guys spin new terms for dishonesty like it was cotton candy.


    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    well no,
    I see the denial, but the reality remains.

    but i wouldn't expect you to understand
    The postmodern notion that truth is whatever you want to make it to be, never made any sense, no.

    this has nothing to do with "alternative facts" gramps, except for the use of the word "alternative"
    "Alternative" is the operative word, isn't it? Inventing yet another euphemism...

    "Lie"..."Fake news"..."alternative fact"... "alternative opinion." Keep trying.



    now shake your cane at those pesky kids on your lawn and go back to your nap[/QUOTE]
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to The Barbarian For Your Post:

    annabenedetti (July 12th, 2018),ok doser (July 12th, 2018)

  14. #115
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    barbie, i understand you are desperate for attention, but you're just making a fool of yourself



    eta: and now he's red - very festive

    eta: aww - he dint stay red

    eta: that's interesting - he doesn't register as red on my android
    Last edited by ok doser; July 12th, 2018 at 11:43 AM.

  15. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post

    The postmodern notion that truth is whatever you want to make it to be, never made any sense, no.


    I was listening to a podcast yesterday of an interview with former Director of the CIA Michael Hayden,, and one of the things he said stuck with me.

    "Post-truth is pre-fascism."

    Also he described what's wrong with Trump perfectly, in my opinion. He asked (paraphrasing now) if Trump's mind was capable of making the distinction between the past that happened, and the past that he needs.

    Hayden also brought up the dynamics of post-truth meta-cognition, where if you lack that ability to think about your thinking - you don't know that you don't know, and you don't shut up. Your fix for the tough question is to keep talking.

    Hayden has a new book out, The Assault on Intelligence: American National Security in the Age of Lies.




    Also, I'm sorry to see you're banned. I have no idea why.
    So keep your candles burning

    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    no shifting of the goalposts - you presented a false dichotomy and I presented an alternative option
    I'm not going to argue about it anymore, you are what you are and you did what you did.

    let's see if that makes sense, logically

    i never lived through the hyper-inflation and social collapse of the 20's and 30's in germany

    logically, therefore, I'm in no place to judge them for what they did after
    Right. You can study history, culture, social anthropology, whatever... but you have no standing to judge them. You weren't there. You don't know what you'd have done.

    a saying you've used before, as if it indicts me

    for all you know, I'm on my android waiting for the next homeless person in line at the soup kitchen
    Since you used to have a flip phone and didn't seem to have a laptop, and now you have a smart phone and a laptop, it appears you're ahead of where you were before your hiatus.

    But that's not the point, is it? The fact is you're here in whatever capacity, safely behind whatever you're using to put those words on the screen. Get back to me when you've lived what these immigrants have lived.

    if you do, you're ahead of me - I only happen upon those sites if a link take me there, or somebody else mentions them
    I guess I am. I go to them with the express purpose of seeing what they're saying about the same stories I'm reading elsewhere - both the way the articles are written and what the comments are saying.
    So keep your candles burning

    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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  19. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Right. You can study history, culture, social anthropology, whatever... but you have no standing to judge them. You weren't there. You don't know what you'd have done.
    and so I have no standing to judge the nazis for the holocaust

    that's insane



    Since you used to have a flip phone and didn't seem to have a laptop, and now you have a smart phone and a laptop, it appears you're ahead of where you were before your hiatus.
    i dint even have a flip phone - my cell was from the late nineties

    and my online was public (or school) library

    got my own tech at home now - unlimited hi-speed

    But that's not the point, is it? The fact is you're here in whatever capacity, safely behind whatever you're using to put those words on the screen. Get back to me when you've lived what these immigrants have lived.
    have you lived what these immigrants live?

    have you lived what I've lived?



    in what way do you have standing to judge my readiness to comment on them?


    I guess I am. I go to them with the express purpose of seeing what they're saying about the same stories I'm reading elsewhere - both the way the articles are written and what the comments are saying.
    i've been enjoying people like jordan peterson (especially the canadian-oriented stuff) and to a smaller degree Ben Shapiro and others - almost all of it on youtube clips

    i also enjoy various ted-talk speakers

    when i listen to the radio lately i've been bouncing back and forth between the cbc and npr

  20. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    and so I have no standing to judge the nazis for the holocaust

    that's insane
    You went from "i never lived through the hyper-inflation and social collapse of the 20's and 30's in germany" to Nazis and the holocaust.

    That's expected. You're getting quite a workout dragging those goalposts from place to place.

    i dint even have a flip phone - my cell was from the late nineties

    and my online was public (or school) library

    got my own tech at home now - unlimited hi-speed
    I'm happy for you.

    have you lived what I've lived?
    No. Have you lived what I've lived?


    in what way do you have standing to judge my readiness to comment on them?
    What, you want to judge without being judged?
    So keep your candles burning

    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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  22. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post

    i've been enjoying people like jordan peterson (especially the canadian-oriented stuff) and to a smaller degree Ben Shapiro and others - almost all of it on youtube clips

    i also enjoy various ted-talk speakers

    when i listen to the radio lately i've been bouncing back and forth between the cbc and npr
    Well, listening to Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro isn't exactly crossing any ideological frontiers for you.

    TED Talks depends on who you're listening to.
    So keep your candles burning

    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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