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Thread: Why Don't the Liberals Want a Wall?

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    Mexico is our bordering country and the connection between us and an entire continent.
    i suspect that shipping from south America is more heavily reliant on maritime than trucking

    and travel is almost wholly aviation

    It's very important to do more with it. It matters far more than anything across an ocean. If it's 'America first' than why are you trying to spend so much time with securing Israel or helping Europe?
    addressed, and i do apologize for the detour around the retarded troll

    Instead you just want to mess with all that and put up a border wall, which will not be very effective, hoping that immigrants will just stop coming in.
    i'm hoping that it will reduce the numbers of illegal immigrants making it across the border without getting caught

    i don't expect it will reduce the demand for immigration northward

    These are people in poverty- they're not going to stop unless you improve their conditions and get Mexico back on track. Once that happens, Mexico can help keep maintain migrants and populations.
    first of all, was mexico ever "on track"?

    secondly, we have our own "people in poverty" to deal with

    thirdly, what does "back on track" mean? what would that look like?

    It doesn't matter how impossible you want to try and make that seem, that's the only solution and simply obsessing over a border wall just makes America look insecure and scared.
    Not really good PR for the supposed 'greatest country in the world'.
    i'm not all that fussed over the claimed "PR"

    and i'm fine with putting a cork in the bottle at the Mexican border - let the Mexicans secure their own populations and their own southern borders
    Last edited by ok doser; January 2nd, 2019 at 10:53 AM.

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  3. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    Liberals don't want a wall because it's only real point is just to be a monument to fear or prejudice.
    is that really what liberals think?

    do you know of ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD that doesn't control it's borders?

    do you know of ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD that doesn't control immigration across its borders?

    ... you can't competently supervise 2000 miles ...
    if you believe that, why have any border security at all?

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  5. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    i suspect that shipping from south America is more heavily reliant on maritime than trucking
    Entirely.

    Read about the Darien Gap.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
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    Famous Border Walls

    1. The Sumerians’ Amorite Wall
    - during the 21st century B.C., the ancient Sumerian rulers Shulgi and Shu-Sin constructed a massive fortified barrier to keep out the Amorites, a group of nomadic tribesmen who had been making incursions into Mesopotamia.
    - believed to have stretched for over a hundred miles between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers in what is now Iraq
    - only succeeded in fending off the Sumerians’ enemies for a few years.
    - hostile invaders either penetrated the wall or simply walked around
    - after the destruction of the city of Ur around 2000 B.C., Sumerian culture began to vanish from history.

    2. The Long Walls of Athens
    - around 461 B.C., the Athenians sought to correct its vulnerability by constructing a series of barriers to connect the city center to the vital harbors of Piraeus and Phalerum
    - the city was later forced to surrender after its navy was defeated at sea
    - the victorious Spartans are then said to have dismantled the hated Long Walls to the sound of celebratory music from flute girls
    - the barriers were later rebuilt, however, and continued to stand until 86 B.C., when they were destroyed by the Roman general Sulla.

    3. The Great Wall of Gorgan
    - also known as the “Red Snake” for its distinctive red-colored bricks, the “Great Wall of Gorgon” was a 121-mile rampart that extended from the southern coast of the Caspian Sea to the Elburz Mountains in what is now Iran
    - built by the Sasanian Persians sometime around the 5th century A.D.and was one of the longest walls of antiquity and boasted more than 30 forts, a garrison of 30,000 troops and a network of canals that acted as both a water supply system and a defensive moat
    - little is known about the wall’s history except that it ultimately failed to protect the Persians from further conquest

    4. Hadrian’s Wall
    - around 122 A.D., the Emperor Hadrian ordered the construction of a stone barrier to protect Roman Britain from the Picts and the other “barbarian” tribes that inhabited northern England and Scotland
    - Hadrian’s Wall” was a 73-mile rampart that stretched from the Solway Firth on the western coast to the mouth of the River Tyne in the east
    - with the decline of the Roman Empire the wall failed to serve as a deterrent

    5. The Great Wall of China
    - China’s legendary Great Wall is actually a collection of stone, wood and earthen barricades that meander for thousands of miles from the Gobi Desert to the North Korean border.
    - construction began in the 3rd century B.C. but the most famous sections were erected between the 14th and 17th centuries A.D. to defend the Ming Dynasty against the steppe nomads to the north
    - the completed wall was once the largest manmade object in the world, but despite its grandeur, it often proved ineffective as a defensive barrier
    - Mongol leader Altan Khan famously bypassed the wall and raided Beijing in 1550, and the Manchus later broke through in 1644 and brought about the fall of the Ming Dynasty

    6. The Walls of Constantinople
    - Byzantine metropolis of Constantinople (modern day Istanbul) flourished for over a millennium with more than 14 miles of barricades that surrounded the city
    - most famous were the Theodosian Wall that included a moat, a 27-foot outer wall and a massive inner wall that was 40 feet tall and 15 feet thick
    - in 1453, the Ottoman Empire besieged the city, their artillery to blasted holes in the walls, the Turks poured through the breach and captured Constantinople, toppling the Byzantine Empire

    7. The Berlin Wall
    - modern history’s most infamous wall was erected in 1961, when the Soviet-aligned East German government built a series of concrete partitions separating East and West Berlin
    - 1000's of East Germans succeeded in scaling the wall, tunneling underneath it and even flying over it in ultra-light aircraft and homemade hot air balloons
    — Westerners dubbed it the “Wall of Shame” and it stood for only 28 years before East German authorities finally opened it on November 9, 1989
    - a wave of celebrations, and elated Berliners soon went to work demolishing the wall with jackhammers and chisels

    https://www.history.com/news/7-famous-border-walls
    ********************************************
    History has demonstrated repeatedly that putting one's faith in "THE WALL" only contributes to a false sense of security and makes even less sense when confronted with the technological advances of the modern era!
    Last edited by jgarden; January 3rd, 2019 at 05:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post
    History has demonstrated repeatedly that putting one's faith in "THE WALL" only contributes to a false sense of security and makes even less sense when confronted with the technological advances of the modern era!
    People are just following a narrative- a grand wall that will keep out all others trying to come in. They were mesmerized by Trump's rhetoric and thinking unrealistically.
    Now all of a sudden this border thing has become some paramount issue beyond everything else of concern like America will be mortally wounded if it doesn't disconnect itself from the rest of the Western hemisphere.

    The more it's scrutinized the more ridiculous it looks- people still strung up about it even though that proposed magnificent fortress wall is now just a refurbishing and lesser people want it. It's really just come down to 'whats even the point at all', and instead of supporters recognizing this they just throw a fit.
    It becomes 'well you don't want to protect anything then' or, even richer, 'that it's the only way and nothing else can work'.
    You see this same kind of argumentation about a lot of things from the Right, particularly when it comes to gun control or healthcare- nothing else could possibly work, only THEIR way.

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  11. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    People are just following a narrative- a grand wall that will keep out all others trying to come in. They were mesmerized by Trump's rhetoric and thinking unrealistically.
    Now all of a sudden this border thing has become some paramount issue beyond everything else of concern like America will be mortally wounded if it doesn't disconnect itself from the rest of the Western hemisphere.

    The more it's scrutinized the more ridiculous it looks- people still strung up about it even though that proposed magnificent fortress wall is now just a refurbishing and lesser people want it. It's really just come down to 'whats even the point at all', and instead of supporters recognizing this they just throw a fit.
    It becomes 'well you don't want to protect anything then' or, even richer, 'that it's the only way and nothing else can work'.
    You see this same kind of argumentation about a lot of things from the Right, particularly when it comes to gun control or healthcare- nothing else could possibly work, only THEIR way.
    What's your way to deal with this?:
    Everyman is a voice in the dark.
    I II III IV

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    People are just following a narrative- a grand wall that will keep out all others trying to come in. They were mesmerized by Trump's rhetoric and thinking unrealistically.
    Now all of a sudden this border thing has become some paramount issue beyond everything else of concern like America will be mortally wounded if it doesn't disconnect itself from the rest of the Western hemisphere.

    The more it's scrutinized the more ridiculous it looks- people still strung up about it even though that proposed magnificent fortress wall is now just a refurbishing and lesser people want it. It's really just come down to 'whats even the point at all', and instead of supporters recognizing this they just throw a fit.
    It becomes 'well you don't want to protect anything then' or, even richer, 'that it's the only way and nothing else can work'.
    You see this same kind of argumentation about a lot of things from the Right, particularly when it comes to gun control or healthcare- nothing else could possibly work, only THEIR way.
    A cynical observer might interpret "THE WALL" as nothing more than a political ploy used to divert attention away from the Mueller Investigation and the other problems that confront his President!

    Notice that those who are 1st in line to demand that America needs "THE WALL" to provide border security are the same individuals who denounce the very existence of climate change - which potentially represents a far greater threat to society and border security as the result of billions of people being displaced from those parts of the world that can no longer sustain agriculture!

  14. #278
    Over 5000 post club fool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post
    A cynical observer might interpret "THE WALL" as nothing more than a political ploy used to divert attention away from the Mueller Investigation and the other problems that confront his President!

    Notice that those who are 1st in line to demand that America needs "THE WALL" to provide border security are the same individuals who denounce the very existence of climate change - which potentially represents a far greater threat to society and border security as the result of billions of people being displaced from those parts of the world that can no longer sustain agriculture!
    The exclamation points really bolster your argument you should use a lot more of them.
    Everyman is a voice in the dark.
    I II III IV

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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    What's your way to deal with this?:
    Do they look like people who are going to turn away from a wall?

    How about focusing on what they are walking away from rather than what they are walking to.

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    Why do liberals keep posting the same silly ideas that are obviously not relevant?
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
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    Throw your trolls out the door

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    Do they look like people who are going to turn away from a wall?
    A wall will slow them down and sensors and cameras would tell border patrol where to send resources. Right now we have zero at that spot.
    Zero.
    How about focusing on what they are walking away from rather than what they are walking to.
    So you leave your doors unlocked and when a crackhead, homeless person, criminal walks in and crashes on your couch you go out and solve their problem for them at your expense? That's what you do?
    I don't think you do that.
    Everyman is a voice in the dark.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Why do liberals keep posting the same silly ideas that are obviously not relevant?
    It's all they got.
    Everyman is a voice in the dark.
    I II III IV

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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    A wall will slow them down and sensors and cameras would tell border patrol where to send resources. Right now we have zero at that spot.
    Zero.
    "Slow them down"
    You mean the 5-20 minutes depending on the wall? Big whoop

    "Cameras and sensors"
    Pretty sure they already have that in 'key' places, which they figure out and go another way.

    So you leave your doors unlocked and when a crackhead, homeless person, criminal walks in and crashes on your couch you go out and solve their problem for them at your expense? That's what you do?
    I don't think you do that.
    That's a bogus analogy. Probably the 500th time I've heard it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    How about focusing on what they are walking away from....


    what should the US do in this regard?

    be specific

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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    The exclamation points really bolster your argument you should use a lot more of them.
    Does "fool" suffer from OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder) when it comes to punctuation?

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