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Thread: What is God's first creation?

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    TOL Legend Ktoyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Can the human mind fully understand the manner in which God created everything? Using our ability to think and piece things together what is the very first creation of YHWH?

    Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
    IT WAS NOT JESUS I WILL TELL YOU THAT, HE WAS NOT A CREATED THING, HE IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN, SAME AS WHAT YOU CALL THE FATHER SAME GOD!!
    So, what?

    believe it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
    NOT TRUE, THIS CONTRADICTS THE CONCEPT OF GOD, HE FIRST CREATES THE HEAVENLY BODIES AND THE ANGELS. WE SEE THIS LATER IN GENESIS. IT DOES NOT FOLLOW IN ORDER OF TIME, THE BIBLE BEGINS WITH HOW GOD CAME TO CREATE US.
    Not to mention, CR apparently hasn't a clue what the first born of every creature actually refers to.

    It actually refers to Christ having been the first to rise from the dead unto eternal life, and the fruit that now allowed to result from said first resurrection unto eternal life - the Believer's resurrection unto eternal life.

    He was the first fruit or harvest of the seed first planted.

    That from Him, fruit like Him might be possible.

    The principle being...

    Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    Which is what eternal life is, once it is given the Believer - it is eternal.

    The eternal life able to sustain itself eternally - because it is Christ's eternal life.

    OSAS!

    "Wonder working power - in The Blood!"

    1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

    15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

    15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

    15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

    15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    Because Rom. 5:6-8.

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    TOL Legend keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
    IT WAS NOT JESUS I WILL TELL YOU THAT, HE WAS NOT A CREATED THING, HE IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN, SAME AS WHAT YOU CALL THE FATHER SAME GOD!!
    Disagree if you wish but Jesus is a man not God. The logos, the firstborn of all creatures, is a creation. The logos is the express IMAGE of the most high, a SPIRIT. ALL IMAGES ARE CREATIONS. Its all in the book K2U. Jesus was BORN that is a creation, into the world that was created by YHWH through his first creation the logos.

    Col 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

    Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
    Heb 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

    God is a SPIRIT, so is the LOGOS his Son. ONLY YHWH is God, ONLY YHWH is not a creation.

    Joh 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.


    Believe the Lord. He tells you about his God.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

  5. #244
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Disagree if you wish but Jesus is a man not God. The logos, the firstborn of all creatures, is a creation. The logos is the express IMAGE of the most high, a SPIRIT. ALL IMAGES ARE CREATIONS. Its all in the book K2U. Jesus was BORN that is a creation, into the world that was created by YHWH through his first creation the logos.

    Col 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

    Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
    Heb 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

    God is a SPIRIT, so is the LOGOS his Son. ONLY YHWH is God, ONLY YHWH is not a creation.

    Joh 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.


    Believe the Lord. He tells you about his God.
    Keypurr, you still have not addressed my point from other threads:

    If Jesus was not God, then according to Psalm 49:7-9,15, His sacrifice was not enough to save even one other person besides Himself, therefore making our faith vain and conceited.

    Verse 15 says, quite clearly:

    But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah - Psalm 49:15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...5&version=NKJV

    God, not man, saved mankind, through His own action. No man (except the Son of Man, who is God) could ever pay off the debt owed from sin, let alone the debt from every person who has ever lived and will live and is living.

    You keep asserting that all images are creations.

    So what?

    A Being who has never had any physical appearance who wants to make Himself known to His physical creation has to make an image for His creation to relate to. That doesn't mean He couldn't have existed prior to making that image...

    God is triune, was triune, and will always be triune.

    Only a triune God can know that He is good, and has been for all of eternity past. God establishes that by two or three witnesses a matter is established. A unitarian god cannot provide those two or three witnesses, as he is only one, and therefore cannot reasonably assert that he has been good for eternity past, because he has no frame of reference other than himself.

    Again, If Christ is not God, then His death, burial, and resurrection did nothing for humanity, and if God is not triune, then He could not know if He was good for all of eternity past.

  6. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    Genesis 1:3 KJV "And God said, Let there be light" How can God 'say' anything if He didn't first create language?
    It's a metaphor.

    GOD but speaks a thing into being with HIS Word.

    Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk

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    Over 500 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    It's a metaphor.

    GOD but speaks a thing into being with HIS Word.

    etfo yNka61uigTptl
    BL
    So you are saying that language is uncreated, always existing, like God Himself?

    All you really need to have a language is a word. A single, solitary word. Once you have that, you establish its definition, which, when you only have a single word, is that word itself. So the word = the word. Each time you say or write or read that single word, you know that it means itself, and this precedes us knowing anything more about the word.

    Then you can add words, you can add them like math equations, to the first word, to make more meaning. Whatever the second word is, it is also defined by itself, but it may also relate to the first word. You can express the relationship, and in fact, this is the relationship, is through the definition. Definitions relate words with each other, in definite ways.

    So if all that is true, then we could conclude that God did not create language, but that language is self-existent, like He is. So long as there was a single, solitary word of some sort, then we could at least reasonably theorize that language is uncreated, and that when God said, "Let," invoking language, that He was invoking what is self-existent, and that was therefore with God in the beginning.

    So that's possible. So if that's true, then I'll have to retract my answer from earlier itt, where I suggest that language was God's first creation.

    But I don't know how much scriptural support I'd have.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Disagree if you wish but Jesus is a man not God. The logos, the firstborn of all creatures, is a creation. The logos is the express IMAGE of the most high, a SPIRIT. ALL IMAGES ARE CREATIONS. Its all in the book K2U. Jesus was BORN that is a creation, into the world that was created by YHWH through his first creation the logos.

    Col 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

    Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
    Heb 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

    God is a SPIRIT, so is the LOGOS his Son. ONLY YHWH is God, ONLY YHWH is not a creation.

    Joh 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.


    Believe the Lord. He tells you about his God.
    Complete hogwash. Jesus is not a created creature. You are completely wrong in the way you translate Colossians 1:15. The passage is in regard to position not physical birth. If you want to know the truth about the Logos, here it is;

    John 1:1 American Standard Version (ASV)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    Show me where it says the logos is created.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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  10. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Keypurr, you still have not addressed my point from other threads:

    If Jesus was not God, then according to Psalm 49:7-9,15, His sacrifice was not enough to save even one other person besides Himself, therefore making our faith vain and conceited.

    Verse 15 says, quite clearly:

    But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah - Psalm 49:15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...5&version=NKJV

    God, not man, saved mankind, through His own action. No man (except the Son of Man, who is God) could ever pay off the debt owed from sin, let alone the debt from every person who has ever lived and will live and is living.

    You keep asserting that all images are creations.

    So what?

    A Being who has never had any physical appearance who wants to make Himself known to His physical creation has to make an image for His creation to relate to. That doesn't mean He couldn't have existed prior to making that image...

    God is triune, was triune, and will always be triune.

    Only a triune God can know that He is good, and has been for all of eternity past. God establishes that by two or three witnesses a matter is established. A unitarian god cannot provide those two or three witnesses, as he is only one, and therefore cannot reasonably assert that he has been good for eternity past, because he has no frame of reference other than himself.

    Again, If Christ is not God, then His death, burial, and resurrection did nothing for humanity, and if God is not triune, then He could not know if He was good for all of eternity past.
    It took A MAN to feel the pain of the cross. It took A MAN to be the stainless Lamb of God. God can not die. You refuse to think for yourself JR. the logos became a man in the body prepared for "IT". The Logos is a creation, firstborn of all creatures. Your blinded by your error ridden traditions friend. YHWH sent his son to save us. There is no Triune God, that is a pagan fable, believe in the words of Jesus. john 17:3. Your Pastor can not save you JR, your must find God on your own.

    The true Son of God is the express IMAGE of the father, a SPIRIT, not a man. ALL IMAGES ARE CREATIONS. So the Son is a creation, a creature NOT GOD. He is firstborn of ALL CREATION. believe what you wish JR, but Jesus tells you that ONLY his FATHER is the TRUE GOD. For me to live is Christ not a church that holds onto pagan ideas.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Complete hogwash. Jesus is not a created creature. You are completely wrong in the way you translate Colossians 1:15. The passage is in regard to position not physical birth. If you want to know the truth about the Logos, here it is;

    John 1:1 American Standard Version (ASV)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    Show me where it says the logos is created.
    Its way over your head BR. The WORD was IN Jesus, Jesus was not the WORD. The WORD is the EXPRESS IMAGE, the SPIRIT that came down with the dove. You have proven it is beyond your ability to see or you do not have the courage to upset your traditions.


    You have had at least five years to disprove my thoughts, you failed. You refuse to open your mind to truth.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

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    Oh YHWH, bring your light to them for they refuse to see what is in your words.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    BL
    So you are saying that language is uncreated, always existing, like God Himself?

    All you really need to have a language is a word. A single, solitary word. Once you have that, you establish its definition, which, when you only have a single word, is that word itself. So the word = the word. Each time you say or write or read that single word, you know that it means itself, and this precedes us knowing anything more about the word.

    Then you can add words, you can add them like math equations, to the first word, to make more meaning. Whatever the second word is, it is also defined by itself, but it may also relate to the first word. You can express the relationship, and in fact, this is the relationship, is through the definition. Definitions relate words with each other, in definite ways.

    So if all that is true, then we could conclude that God did not create language, but that language is self-existent, like He is. So long as there was a single, solitary word of some sort, then we could at least reasonably theorize that language is uncreated, and that when God said, "Let," invoking language, that He was invoking what is self-existent, and that was therefore with God in the beginning.

    So that's possible. So if that's true, then I'll have to retract my answer from earlier itt, where I suggest that language was God's first creation.

    But I don't know how much scriptural support I'd have.

    Consider: If your alone why do you need a language?


    God is a spirit, his word (logos) is a spirit.

    Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

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  15. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Consider: If your alone why do you need a language?


    God is a spirit, his word (logos) is a spirit.

    Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    So good to hear your words and the truth they reflect.

    peace friend.

    Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    Its way over your head BR. The WORD was IN Jesus, Jesus was not the WORD. The WORD is the EXPRESS IMAGE, the SPIRIT that came down with the dove. You have proven it is beyond your ability to see or you do not have the courage to upset your traditions.


    You have had at least five years to disprove my thoughts, you failed. You refuse to open your mind to truth.
    The simplicity of the Gospel proves you wrong.

    John 1:1 American Standard Version (ASV)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:14 American Standard Version (ASV)
    14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    The simplicity of the Gospel proves you wrong.

    John 1:1 American Standard Version (ASV)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:14 American Standard Version (ASV)
    14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.
    How does that show that the Word of GOD isn't synonymous with the Spirit of GOD again?

    Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    How does that show that the Word of GOD isn't synonymous with the Spirit of GOD again?

    Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk
    I shows that God became man and dwelt among us. You and Keypurr have very similiar thoughts
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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