User Tag List

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 41 of 41

Thread: Does God love everybody? No!

  1. #31
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Carmarthenshire
    Posts
    7,972
    Thanks
    156
    Thanked 763 Times in 670 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    179626
    Elohim hates wicked people. “Yah Veh tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence” (Psalm 11:5)

    Elohim hates their ways (Proverbs 15:9)
    Their thoughts (Proverbs 15:26)
    Their worship (Proverbs 15:8)
    Their actions (Proverbs 6:18)
    Their evil deeds (Psalm 5:5)
    The Almighty singles out as a special object of his hatred the blasphemous deeds of the Nicolaitans, those who seduced Elohim's people with idolatry and sexual immorality:
    “Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate” (Revelation 2:6).
    I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

    "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

    I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
    A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
    If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

    Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

    I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

  2. #32
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Carmarthenshire
    Posts
    7,972
    Thanks
    156
    Thanked 763 Times in 670 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    179626
    PS
    “Yah Veh preserves all who love him, but all the wicked he will destroy” (Psalm 145:20).
    I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

    "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

    I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
    A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
    If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

    Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

    I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

  3. #33
    Rookie
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    21
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    Is it possible the whole way the discussion has been framed is wrong? I know the reaction you have - people applying some broad (eventually meaningless) idea that God loves everyone and ultimately that leads to some form of universalism. The reason for that is that they have taken something of God and made it their own. As I read scripture, it is clear to me that God's thoughts towards mankind (generally) are far beyond what I can fathom. And in recognizing that, I realize that I am not in a position to decide what God's love really is. Not on my own. The scriptures are taken up largely with calling sinful man to repentance - with revealing God's ways with respect to His fallen, sinful creation. And the mercy with which He treated such rebels as the Ninevehites makes it clear that He is not looking at that which man looks. And so I can't help but take Him at His word that He does not have a desire for any man to perish. He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. But where we tend to get off the rails is by saying that that means He "feels" the same about everyone. Everyone is loved (and unconditionally). But what do we mean when we say that?

    Before I go any further, I realize you are looking for a specific response - verses that show that God loves everyone unconditionally (and equally, I presume) since you don't believe those verses are there. But if you are going to do that, you have to define terms first. And that's where I think it needs to start.

    Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
    He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
    In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
    Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
    Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
    No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

    I John 4:7-12

    You make the point (rightly) that this epistle was written to the church. And over and over again John says that those who are of God will love because that is what and who God is. So God is defined as love. In other words, you can't be born of God and NOT love. But it had to start somewhere - and so verse 10 shows that God loved US first. He loved those that hated Him. Love, then, is definitional of the true believer because it is so closely identified with Him in whom he believes. And if God loved us before we were saved, then does it not follow that we are to love those that do not love us? Isn't that what Jesus told us :

    Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
    But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
    That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
    For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
    And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    Matthew 5:43-48

    So there is a clear indication that the love of God implies love of those that don't love Him. That, then, would mean He DOES (in fact) love everyone. But is the love He has for the Pharisee (Jesus said He confronted them that they "might be saved" - John 5:34) the same as the love that He has for one who trusts Him? To answer that, you have to be able to show what it means for God to love. His love is shown to sinners by declaring their lostness and need for salvation (while yet providing for temporal needs as He sees fit) but His love for those that are His servants is entirely different and implies an intimacy that the lost man cannot know. It implies a provision that the lost man rejects. It implies an understanding that is totally foreign to the lost, carnal, dead in trespasses and sin man. So even though there is love for the lost man, it can't be that the love God has for the regenerate man is the same. The lost man simply does not have the capacity for that love (to receive or to give it) while the saved man does because of what God has done.

    So I believe God does love everyone - but the way that love is defined is vastly different from the popular love that is more romance than it is trusting and obeying.
    Hello Nikolai,
    Thank you for showing the proper way to engage in a discussion and that you did not attack me or stoop to calling names. Many people should learn to follow your lead. Even though we disagree, we are still able to each present their views in a neutral manner.
    Let me say again that it is not possible to teach a doctrine, based solely on one verse, a verse always taken out context. If John 3:16 was not in the bible, no one would be teaching that God loves everybody. All of the doctrines that apply to believers must be found taught in both Testaments. They O.T. and N.T. are interconnected, they are not seperate and cannot be treated in that way.
    I noticed that you did not refer to any O.T. verses.
    1. That is because there are no O.T. verses that teach that God unconditionally loves all people. The only people God is said to love in the O.T. are the Jews, Deut 7:6-8. In the O.T. love is not the dominate topic, as people try to make it so in the N.T. Rather, obedience is stressed. If the O.T. does not teach that God love's all people, then it cannot be taught from strictly using the N.T. The bible teaches that God does not change, Ps 102:26-27, Mal 8:6, Heb 1:12,13:8. If God does not say or show that He loves all people in the O.T. and if you try to claim that the N.T teaches that God loves all people, then you are teaching that God in fact, did change. This strictly contradicts scripture. Does it not make sense that if God did indeed love all people, that He would clearly make that known in the O.T. also? If such a thing were true, why would it be known in the N.T. and not one mention in the O.T.?
    2. No topic can be fully understood or grasped unless one study's a topic in both Testaments.
    3. People do not know what "agape" means. In no way is it an emotion, it is not infatuation. In the bible the word love is akways a noun, the other forms are always in verb form. It is never used as an adjective. If you can, look up "agape" in Kittle's Theological Dictionary. You will gain the correct understanding of the word, which is not what people think it is.
    2Jn :6 And this is love, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS.
    JN 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
    Jn 15: 10 If ye KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
    God's love toward His sheep is nothing like love found in a romance novel.
    You make the error in trying to include all people in words spoken that only apply to believers.
    Jn 15 :11-12
    These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
    Jesus is speaking strictly to the disciples, which applies to all believers after Jesus returned to heaven.
    Vs 12 This is my commandment, that ye love one another, as I have loved you.
    These words do not include all people, only believers. And, these words do not teach, say, speak or imply that God loves all people. I dont know how you can conclude such a thing from the words of Jesus.

    All of the verses that use the words "loved us," Rom 8:37, Ep 2:4, 5:2, 2Thes 2:16, 1Jn 4:10,11,19, Rev 1:5, do not, cannot include all of the people in the world. "Us" only refers to, includes only all believers. It is restricted to mean only believers. Every time. You really need to read more of the passages before and after the verses you isolate. You need to read entire chapters or books, in order to get the proper and only context.
    Ep 2:4-7
    But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved US.
    Even when WE (believers only) were dead in sins, hath quickened US together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
    And has raised US up together, and made US sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
    That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward US through Christ Jesus.

    Who were Paul, John, (in the books written after the gospel) Peter, James and Jude all writing to? The believers. The letters were written for believers only, they were not open letters for anyone (non-believers) to read or to think it applied to any and all pagans. The letters dealt with the problems believers were going through, corrected false teaching, rebuked error and exhorted the believers who read them. None of these letters were written with any tbought, emphasis or focus toward non-believers.

    Mat 5:43-48 and all similar teachings are instructions to us as belevers. Because it is through much tribulation that we enter the kingdom, that the world will hate believers, that there will be firery trials due to being a believer, etc. We are not to take revenge against the goats who will persecute sheep. But, I am bewildered as to how you can say that instructions to us prove that God loves all people. Nothing in the instructions say anything about how God loves all people. I dont mean to be rude or insulting, but it is only through your imagination that you somehow can find evidence that God loves everybody in the verses you cite when no such evidence exists. You cannot show any words that state it. And all any of us have are the words in the bible. You have to use the words found in Scripture to teach/prove anything you claim.

    Ep 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, EVEN AS CHRIST ALSO LOVED THE CHURCH..

    Why does this verse state that Jesus loves the church, if Jesus loves all people?

    The bible is very clear that God loves, and only loves those who love Jesus and keep the commandments.
    Jn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he( only those) that loveth me SHALL BE LOVED OF MY FATHER., AND I WILL LOVE HIM, and will manifest ( make himself known) to him.

    Jn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him," If a man LOVE me, he will keep my words: AND MY FATHER WILL LOVE HIM...

    Jn 16:27 For the Father himself LOVETH YOU, BECAUSE YE HAVE LOVED ME....

    1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God/Jesus and keep his commandments.

    JN 8:42 If God were your father, ye would love me.... ( They did not love Jesus, thus God did not love them, the Pharisees)

    You stated that God loves those who hate him. Again, you cannot show a verse that teaches such. However, the bible does teach about those who hate God.

    Deut 5:9-10. Notice how different God treats those who hate him and those who love God
    Vs 9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous (zealous) God, visiting the iniquity ( consequences) of the fathers upon the the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.
    Not a pleasent thing for those who hate God.
    Vs 10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
    Wow, what a contrast. Notice that God only gives mercy to those that love Him.
    Another big lie floating around is that God offers mercy to all people. No!
    Rom 9:18 Therefore HATH HE MERCY ON WHOM HE WILL HAVE MERCY...

    Deut 7:9-10
    Know therefore that the LORD Thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with THEM THAT LOVE HIM AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS to a thousand generations.

    Vs 10 And REPAYETH them that HATE him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that HATETH him, he will repay (all of God's wrath) him to his faith.

    Deut 32 :41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance TO MINE ENEMIES, and will reward them THAT HATE ME.

    Psalm 21: 8-9 Thine hand shall find out all thine enemies: thy right hand shall find out those that hate thee.
    Thou shalt make them as a firery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them

    Nah 1:2 God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.

    Ps 5:5-6 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight. THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY. (Mat 7:23)

    Vs 6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD WILL ABHOR THE BLOODY AND DECITFUL MAN.

    Ps 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous, BUT THE WICKED AND HIM THAT LOVETH VIOLENCE HIS SOUL SHALL HATE.


    Rom 9:13
    As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Easu have I hated.

    Keep in mind, I can still show more verses on this topic Thus while you cannot show even one verse that teaches God loves all people, I have shown verses that teach God does not love all people. What is the opposite of love. Why, hate of course. Also understand that there is nothing in scripture that teaches God has "different degrees" of love.
    Nobody has been able to show me one Hebrew or Greek word that is defined as to mean " unconditional love."
    While you are at it, show me word in the original text that is defined: "Sacrifical Love" And show me verses that teach the concept of God "falling in love" with individuals or all people. Show me one verse that commands us to "fall in love with God/Jesus, or where somebody in the bible talking about " falling in love" with Jesus/God.




    Sent from my LG-M327 using Tapatalk

  4. #34
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    On the road
    Posts
    6,062
    Thanks
    18,712
    Thanked 5,400 Times in 3,408 Posts

    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147585
    @preacherman57

    Just a quick reminder of a few other verses, in addition to John 3:16 (because two or three witnesses shall establish a matter, and several different Bible passages are pretty strong witnesses) that God, out of love for the world, sent His Son (who is God) to die not only for those who love Him, but so that those who don't, have the opportunity to love Him (passages are in no particular order):

    For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. - John 3:16-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...7&version=NKJV

    Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. - John 15:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...3&version=NKJV

    But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:8-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...9&version=NKJV

    For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. - Romans 5:6-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...1&version=NKJV

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to JudgeRightly For Your Post:

    popsthebuilder (June 23rd, 2018)

  6. #35
    Over 1500 post club nikolai_42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,833
    Thanks
    125
    Thanked 791 Times in 501 Posts

    Blog Entries
    4
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    404623
    Quote Originally Posted by preacherman57 View Post
    Keep in mind, I can still show more verses on this topic Thus while you cannot show even one verse that teaches God loves all people, I have shown verses that teach God does not love all people. What is the opposite of love. Why, hate of course. Also understand that there is nothing in scripture that teaches God has "different degrees" of love.
    Nobody has been able to show me one Hebrew or Greek word that is defined as to mean " unconditional love."
    While you are at it, show me word in the original text that is defined: "Sacrifical Love" And show me verses that teach the concept of God "falling in love" with individuals or all people. Show me one verse that commands us to "fall in love with God/Jesus, or where somebody in the bible talking about " falling in love" with Jesus/God.



    Sent from my LG-M327 using Tapatalk
    This is going to be a quick initial response, Preacherman. First, let me say that nowhere does the scripture say we fall in love with God (or vice versa). That's what the talk of God's love has led to. But at the same time there is something of God's love to a believer that implies intimacy the world can't know. That's what the Song of Solomon hints at. Isaiah 62:5 compares God's love of His people to that of a bridegroom for his bride. John 3:29 distinguishes between the relationship between the bride and the bridegroom and the bridegroom and his friend (John the Baptist in this case). John calls himself the disciple whom Jesus loved. That means nothing if the love God has for all disciples (much less all people) is the same. It is clear John was shown many things that most of the other disciples didn't see firsthand(Transfiguration and the Revelation is what I am thinking about here). And He told the disciples that they were no longer called servants but friends because He told them what the Father told Him (John 15:15). Remember, though, that this is what the beginning of Revelation states. That it was something given to John that was given to Jesus by the Father to show the saints things that were to come to pass. John was the only one who actually saw it. I say this only to point out that the love of God goes beyond what man understands. He makes the rain to fall on everyone. He feeds and clothes even the wicked. That is love (by Jesus' own words). That's why I say that the definition of love is critical here. Remember Nineveh. They repented and God preserved them. If that isn't some form of love, then what is it?

    That doesn't deny the statements God makes about hating Esau, for example. But remember that we are told to hate our parents by the same One who upheld every jot and tittle of the Law (and belittled anyone who would teach others not to obey the Law). Therefore, that hate cannot be exclusive of love.

    I want to say more but don't have the time at the moment.
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

  7. #36
    Over 4000 post club oatmeal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,699
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 333 Times in 273 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    67791
    God indeed loves all but do all love Him?

    God is willing and able to love but how many receive all the love that God could love them with?

    Those who reject Gods love do not experience all of Gods love but Gods love is yet available to them.

  8. #37
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    17,983
    Thanks
    444
    Thanked 1,343 Times in 1,305 Posts

    Blog Entries
    5
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    52154
    Quote Originally Posted by andyc View Post
    Jesus told us to love our enemies. Does God love his enemies?
    First of all God telling His disciples specifically to love their enemies isnt God saying that He loves all mankind, so your question is invalid !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  9. #38
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    17,983
    Thanks
    444
    Thanked 1,343 Times in 1,305 Posts

    Blog Entries
    5
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    52154
    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
    God indeed loves all but do all love Him?

    God is willing and able to love but how many receive all the love that God could love them with?

    Those who reject Gods love do not experience all of Gods love but Gods love is yet available to them.
    False statement. No such thing in scripture as Gods Love is available to anyone !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  10. #39
    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Calfornia
    Posts
    8,450
    Thanks
    306
    Thanked 4,033 Times in 2,371 Posts

    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147729
    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    False statement. No such thing in scripture as Gods Love is available to anyone !
    1 Timothy 2:1-4 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
    Instructions concerning Prayer
    1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for everyone, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, so that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is right and is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Bright Raven For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (June 30th, 2018)

  12. #40
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    ATL
    Posts
    17,983
    Thanks
    444
    Thanked 1,343 Times in 1,305 Posts

    Blog Entries
    5
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    52154
    Gods Love is exclusive in the Lord Jesus Christ Rom 8:39

    39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


    Those outside of Christ cannot be the objects of Gods Love. Ps 5:5

    5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to beloved57 For Your Post:

    Nanja (June 30th, 2018)

  14. #41
    Over 5000 post club marhig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    5,515
    Thanks
    1,954
    Thanked 2,424 Times in 1,855 Posts

    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    36496
    Quote Originally Posted by preacherman57 View Post
    Ok, stop drooling all of you Evangelicals, Armenians and "free-will" salvation lovers. Time to stir the pot. This time, I am putting the onus on you to prove through actual, in print, black and white verses on a page in a book called a bible, verses that all can read with their eyes, that
    1.God loves all people, and has always loved all people.

    I am not posting this to make a statement or to engage in a debate. I know that God does not love all people and all of the non-sheep believe that God does love all people. I am not challenging those of you that believe God loves all people.
    I know from scripture that there are people God hates. I can show you 60+ verses that teach that God does not love all people . But, instead of me showing those verses, I am challenging you folk to show me, with printed on the page verses, that God loves all people.
    We all are aware of Jn 3:16. Since we are all aware of Jn 3:16, you cannot use it. This should not be a problem because surely you will be able to overwhelm me with many, many verses. Verses that clearly and distinctly state that God loves all people, verses that are so easy to understand that someone who has never read a verse of scripture could be shown all of the verses you are going to show me, and easily understand and realize that" "Why, yes, it is so oblivious that God loves all people "

    Let me help you out with Jn 3:16
    1. It is often stated about "How much God loves you." That is not stated in Jn 3:16 nor is there any verse that states such. Where does this imaginary teaching come from? In the same manner as all of the lies being taught. Because the Pharisees and the goats will not bother to even do even a little word study. They are under the delusion that the English translations are perfect and accurately convey the precise meaning of the original languages. That, and reading scripture with our American culture mindset, leads to all of the false teaching.
    The false teaching that "God loves people soooooooo much," comes from the English word "so" in Jn 3:16, "For God so loved the world..." Because the Pharisees do not know that English syntax does not mirror the Greek syntax,(they are very different) when they read "For God so loved..." they, with their brilliance, automatically "know" that the word "so" must be an adjective, a word that modifys a noun, and that the English word "so" can be used to describe degree or depth. So, ergo, "God loves the world sooooooo much!"
    There is only one little problem with that method of brilliant deduction. The English word "so" is translated from the Greek word: houto. The Greek word is not an adjective, (Are you ready for the truth?) it is an ADVERB! An adverb, a word that modifys a verb! The definition of houto is: in this way, in this manner. Thus, an accurate rendering of Jn 3:16 would read:
    For God, in this way, loved the world..."
    Not" God loved the world so much" Are you aware that the word "much" is nowhere to be found in the original text of Jn 3:16.
    You mean to tell me that all of the Pharisees, after all of their seminary training, getting their degrees, writing books, speaking at confrences, being adored and idolized, appearing as guest speakers, being interviewed, being lauded, etc, etc, are not aware of this fact? Something that took only seconds to STUDY? Showing not the slighest inclination to want to look up a simple word? I don't know what the seminaries and bible colleges are teaching people, but the urgent need to study the original languages must not be a part of obtaining a degree.
    And continuing on with how the Pharisees refuse to study, the English word "world" in Jn 3:16 is translated from the Greek word KOSMOS, as most are aware of. And of coures, the Pharisees and their fans have determined that the English word "world" has got to mean "all of the people in the world." Does this thinking result from a result of studying the Greek word "kosmos" and dilingent hermeneutics? No, no, no. It has to mean "all of the people in the world" because that is what we want it to mean.
    Because, with flawed reasoning and personal interpretation, since God is love, must mean that God HAS to love all people.
    However, if one would to bother and do a word study on "kosmos" one would discover that "kosmos" has at least 10 different meanings. With the proper context, according to those who made a life time of studying the Konie Greek, the meaning of "kosmos" in Jn 3:16 does not mean "all people." Not that that fact matters to Evangelicals. The truth of God's word is not important to Pharisees. There is another Greek word translated into the English word "world" used in the N.T. That Greek word is "oikoumene." This word is defined as: land. earth, world.
    This is an ancient Greek term for "the known world, the inhabited world, the inhabitants of the world. It is a term used by geographers today to mean inhabited land, where people have made their permanent homes and all areas considered occupied or used for industry or farming.
    Since the word " kosmos" has so many different meanings and "oikoumene" specifically means, or includes the thought of all people, would it not make sense that the word "oikoumene" would have been used in Jn 3:16 if the readers were to understand that the "world" meant all people? (Forgive me for using logic) oikoumene is used in Lk 2:1, 4:5, Acts 11:28, 17:31, 19:27, Rom 10:18 and Rev 3:10.

    Another reason you do not need to use Jn 3:16 is because the teaching that God loves all people and has always loved all people will be made clear by the other verses you are going to present as proof, right? Because, you cannot teach a doctrine using only one verse, correct? Because of all the verses in the bible, there must be orher verses to prove a doctrine, right? Am I making sense? Can you understand there is not one doctrine in the entire bible that is built on one, solitary, stand-alone verse? That is not the case with Jn 3:16, is it?
    Now, you cannot use the following verses because they all state that "God loved US.."and the word "us" in the N.T. always and only refers to believers: Rm 8:37, Ep 2:4, 5:2, 2Th2:16, 1Jn4:10-11, 19 and Rev 1:5.
    But, that shouldn't be a problem because such an incredible, stupendous doctrine that " God loves all people" will be shown in all of the gospels, right? Surely Paul would teach it,right? And John, well, he would have wrote that down in his other writtings, right? And Peter, James, Peter and Jude would not hesitate to include that in what they wrote, would they? I realize you people are going to make me look silly because of all of the evidence you are going to flood me with.
    2. Show me one Greek or Hebrew word that was translated into the English words, love or loved, that is defined as meaning "unconditional love." Just one or two definitions from any word study tool.

    I must ask you to answer a question. When we read;
    Jn 14:21 He that HATH MY COMMANDMENTS, AND KEEPETH THEM, he it is that loveth me: AND HE THAT LOVETH ME SHALL BE LOVED OF MY FATHER, AND I WILL LOVE HIM...

    Jn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, IF A MAN LOVE ME, HE WILL KEEP MY WORDS: AND MY FATHER WILL LOVE HIM..."

    Help me out here. According to these two verses, verses in black and white, verses in print that all can read and understand, Jesus clearly says, without exception, that only those who keep the words of Jesus (Obey) and love Jesus, will be loved by God. Is that not what the verses teach? Or, am I in error? Also, it sure sounds like there are conditions to be met before God loves a person? If there are conditions to being
    loved by God, then His love cannot be unconditional. And since the overwhelming number of people who do/did not love Jesus or keep his word, how is it possible, based on these TWO verses, to say and believe that God has always loved every single person?
    And doesn't Jesus say in Vs 14:21 that he will (only) love those who obey him and keep his commandments?

    "God loves all people, and He loves them unconditionally", if true, would have to be the greatest, most important doctrine in the entire bible, would it not? I mean, as much as it is said, it must have a lofty standing in the bible, a doctrine above all other bible doctrines.

    Since you are going to show me verse after verse in the N.T. that God loves all people, I can't wait to see the verses found in the O.T. Man oh man, am I going to be shown up. Because in my searching the O.T., I have only seen one group of people being loved by God:

    Deut 7:6-8, the Jews and the Jews alone. I must be lax in my study because;
    1. The Jews are the only people God said He loved.No other tribe, nation or people group are mentioned as being loved by God.
    2. I find it very strange that, because you people talk so much and often about how much God loves all people, that Deut 7:7 is the only time God tells of loving the Jews.

    So, I am ready to get bombarded by all of the verses you folks are going to show me.
    And one last point. You guys also teach that God never stops loving people. Perhaps you could explain this verse to me:

    Hos 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for THERE I HATED THEM: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of my house.I WILL LOVE THEM NO MORE....

    Okay, the ball is in your court. Show me your verses that proclaim God loves all people.



    Sent from my LG-M327 using Tapatalk
    Yes God loves everyone, but he hates the sin in us. God loves every one of us but he can't make his abode with us unless we repent and start live by his will. The father in the prodigal son only ran to the son once he turned back to him and repented. And that's what God is waiting for, for us to repent when we hear the gospel.

    The first word Jesus spoke was repent.

    God loves all of us, but he only makes himself known to those who truly love him, those who repent, live by his will and obey his word. He can't live in a heart of a person that loves their flesh and this world before him. And the Spirit of Christ can't live through a person who doesn't put God first in their lives.

    God is love, and it's not that God doesn't love all of us, it's that all of us don't love him. God wants us all back, and that's why Jesus sent his disciples out to preach the gospel to every creature in every nation, so that everyone has a chance to hear the truth, and with the hope that they will turn back to God. We have a choice, believe the word of truth or not, and those who truly believe will live by God's will and obey him showing that they truly love him.

    Matthew 5

    "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

    That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

    For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?


    And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect"


    We are to love even our enemies, so I'm sure that God, who is love will love his enemies too. But he can't be with them if they hate him. They have the gift of hearing his word through his gospel, and they then have the choice, to accept or reject him, and all those who truly accept him, follow Jesus and live by the father's will that sent him, as he himself did, showing us an example to follow and God is with them.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us