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Thread: Why "Conversion Therapy" Should Be Illegal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
    Why would anyone advocate a treatment program for a healthy person? Isn't that the same thing as saying gays are mentally ill?
    The advocates of these programs think so but again, even if they were right, it doesn't mean their treatment is worth crap. There was a mental health treatment dating back to ancient days called trepanning. It is a surgical procedure that drills a hole into the skull. The original practice was to let the demons that were thought to cause mental illness out. But the practice, though highly illegal, is still done to this day and it was one of the original 'conversion therapies' for homosexuals.

    So a question I would ask is should parents be allowed to drill holes in their children's heads to save them from homosexuality. If the answer is no then obviously the effectiveness of the treatment matters.

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    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    The advocates of these programs think so but again, even if they were right, it doesn't mean their treatment is worth crap. There was a mental health treatment dating back to ancient days called trepanning. It is a surgical procedure that drills a hole into the skull. The original practice was to let the demons that were thought to cause mental illness out. But the practice, though highly illegal, is still done to this day and it was one of the original 'conversion therapies' for homosexuals.

    So a question I would ask is should parents be allowed to drill holes in their children's heads to save them from homosexuality. If the answer is no then obviously the effectiveness of the treatment matters.
    Some people think that schizophrenia and associated are simply demonic possession to this day as well and that there's no such thing as mental illness. Thankfully, progression has been made overall from the days doctors thought that everything could be cured with leeches...
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Some people think that schizophrenia and associated are simply demonic possession to this day as well and that there's no such thing as mental illness. Thankfully, progression has been made overall from the days doctors thought that everything could be cured with leeches...
    Sometime ago, while visiting an old friend' and his dad, his dad turns out to own all these old video games.

    As I had never played Pac Man, I decided to give it a whirl.

    At some point as I was playing with fresh eyes, given that it was my first try at the game, it dawns on me that "here is possibly a solution to the mind of the 'Schizophrenic.'"

    Sometime later, I'm watching an interview with several Neuroscientists, one of whom had been able to solve for much of the Schizophrenia he had struggled with for a time in his life.

    At one point, when asked about a possible "cure" he relates that possibly a video game of some sort might help.

    Made absolute sense to me, given where I look at such things from.

    My point?

    Just because the laws behind a possible solution to one thing or another might not reveal themselves to most, given the status quo most tend to look at most things from - even scientists - does not necessarily mean a solution does not exist.

    The NLP community has long since come up with all sorts of proven solutions to all sorts of human compulsion issues, etc., for example.

    But they are not recognized by the Western model's status quo as even viable and are thus, dismissed right off.

    It is what it is...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    It doesn't work and it's abusive:

    The first five results on Google for "Does Conversion Therapy Work?"

    https://www.livescience.com/25082-ga...apy-facts.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstru...0N#.wkQJLo9BVN

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/b...nt-therapy-all

    https://www.quora.com/Does-voluntary...n-therapy-work



    The following five are no more positive and given that the "practices" have been roundly condemned as not only quackery but harmful in accredited scientific circles and that's there's no credible evidence that homosexuals can be "cured" anyway then what justification is there for "therapy centers" to be open anywhere at all?

    Good for New Hampshire to be the latest state to outlaw such abuse but unfortunately there's still places where it's legal for minors to be forced into what is nothing other than degrading and harmful "treatment".

    How can that be acceptable to anyone?
    You’re an idiot. Just because you let your son go homo doesn’t mean everyone else has to.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    My point?

    Just because the laws behind a possible solution to one thing or another might not reveal themselves to most, given the status quo most tend to look at most things from - even scientists - does not necessarily mean a solution does not exist.

    The NLP community has long since come up with all sorts of proven solutions to all sorts of human compulsion issues, etc., for example.

    But they are not recognized by the Western model's status quo as even viable and are thus, dismissed right off.

    It is what it is...
    True enough but it doesn't mean they work either. Given the potential negative consequences, the state has a legitimate role in protecting minors from treatments when the available evidence shows that the treatment is more likely to do harm than good.

    If conversion therapy groups want to prove otherwise they need to do the hard work to prove that their therapies are beneficial and convince the medical community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    You’re an idiot. Just because you let your son go homo doesn’t mean everyone else has to.
    So would you let someone take a power drill to your son's skull to prevent that? This is a serious question, is your desire to 'cure' your son's homosexuality so strong that you would force him to undergo a dangerous procedure and possibly be lobotomized to cure him?

    If you say no, then the effectiveness and safety of the treatment matters to you. If you say yes, I have to question your worthiness to be a parent.

    Another more realistic but equally serious question, are you willing to deal with the consequence that your son will come out of the program a self-loathing emotional wreck and he will HATE you with a passion so strong he will never talk to you again for the rest of his life? Because that is a not uncommon result of these treatments.

    What many of these therapies drill into the subject's head is that they are the way they are because their parents abused them when they were very young and they just don't recall the abuse. That their father never loved them, that their mother was a clinging disaster that never let them emotionally develop, etc.

    So just how far are you willing to destroy your family so your son doesn't go 'homo'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    So would you let someone take a power drill to your son's skull to prevent that? This is a serious question, is your desire to 'cure' your son's homosexuality so strong that you would force him to undergo a dangerous procedure and possibly be lobotomized to cure him?

    If you say no, then the effectiveness and safety of the treatment matters to you. If you say yes, I have to question your worthiness to be a parent.

    Another more realistic but equally serious question, are you willing to deal with the consequence that your son will come out of the program a self-loathing emotional wreck and he will HATE you with a passion so strong he will never talk to you again for the rest of his life? Because that is a not uncommon result of these treatments.

    What many of these therapies drill into the subject's head is that they are the way they are because their parents abused them when they were very young and they just don't recall the abuse. That their father never loved them, that their mother was a clinging disaster that never let them emotionally develop, etc.

    So just how far are you willing to destroy your family so your son doesn't go 'homo'?



    interesting that you conflate severe physical damage (a power drill to the skull) with emotional damage



    just guessing here, but are you a millennial?

    a woman?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    interesting that you conflate severe physical damage (a power drill to the skull) with emotional damage



    just guessing here, but are you a millennial?

    a woman?
    No and No.

    Interesting that you avoided the questions. The reference to trepanning is just illustrating the point with a logical extreme. But the point is still valid when you limit it to the more conventional damage that occurs. When the vast majority of the medical community says these therapies are not effective and will likely do more harm than any benefit, why would you subject your son to them?

    Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against an adult who willingly understands the issues and intensely wants to try these things doing so. But too many minors are doing it for other reasons, usually to please their parents. This type of personality conditioning will not work under those conditions and it is just a formula for ruined lives and destroyed families.

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    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    You’re an idiot. Just because you let your son go homo doesn’t mean everyone else has to.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Eh? Put the crack pipe down and join reality for five minutes. Honestly, is there anything besides cement in that head of yours?

    What.A.Crank.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Sometime ago, while visiting an old friend' and his dad, his dad turns out to own all these old video games.

    As I had never played Pac Man, I decided to give it a whirl.

    At some point as I was playing with fresh eyes, given that it was my first try at the game, it dawns on me that "here is possibly a solution to the mind of the 'Schizophrenic.'"

    Sometime later, I'm watching an interview with several Neuroscientists, one of whom had been able to solve for much of the Schizophrenia he had struggled with for a time in his life.

    At one point, when asked about a possible "cure" he relates that possibly a video game of some sort might help.

    Made absolute sense to me, given where I look at such things from.

    My point?

    Just because the laws behind a possible solution to one thing or another might not reveal themselves to most, given the status quo most tend to look at most things from - even scientists - does not necessarily mean a solution does not exist.

    The NLP community has long since come up with all sorts of proven solutions to all sorts of human compulsion issues, etc., for example.

    But they are not recognized by the Western model's status quo as even viable and are thus, dismissed right off.

    It is what it is...
    I have a friend with schizophrenia and I don't really see this as a valid comparison. Science has developed treatments that can keep the condition in check and hopefully one day well develop a cure altogether and other conditions such as dementia. As it stands, my friend is likely to have schizophrenia for the rest of his life and be on medication for the duration. Without it, he loses touch with reality altogether.

    The point is that the research into mental health conditions and cures is proper science. The likes of conversion therapy is not, it's just quackery.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    So would you let someone take a power drill to your son's skull to prevent that? This is a serious question, is your desire to 'cure' your son's homosexuality so strong that you would force him to undergo a dangerous procedure and possibly be lobotomized to cure him?

    If you say no, then the effectiveness and safety of the treatment matters to you. If you say yes, I have to question your worthiness to be a parent.

    Another more realistic but equally serious question, are you willing to deal with the consequence that your son will come out of the program a self-loathing emotional wreck and he will HATE you with a passion so strong he will never talk to you again for the rest of his life? Because that is a not uncommon result of these treatments.

    What many of these therapies drill into the subject's head is that they are the way they are because their parents abused them when they were very young and they just don't recall the abuse. That their father never loved them, that their mother was a clinging disaster that never let them emotionally develop, etc.

    So just how far are you willing to destroy your family so your son doesn't go 'homo'?
    I pointed out homo ridiculousness to him by age 4. Problem solved idiots


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    [Conversion therapy for Sodomites] The basic issue is the vast majority of mental health professionals as represented by over 30 professional organizations worldwide have condemned conversion therapy as ineffective and likely to do more harm to the subject than benefit…
    They could get an honest job (Is 5:20). Psychiatry has little to offer. It’s a heart issue.

    The wickedness of Sodom ([Ex 20:14] heterosexual [Lev. 20:10–12] or homosexual [Lev. 20:10,13]) was notorious (Gen. 13:13).

    What's new?
    PlastikBuddah [aka Gamera] make-believer. Kmoney [aka Count Iblis] make-believer. Alate_One deceives students in the classroom. Arthur Brain wants answers. Eph 5:11

    "Being a square keeps you from going around in circles." ~ J Vernon McGee Ro 3:23, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    I pointed out homo ridiculousness to him by age 4. Problem solved idiots


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    So all you need to do is talk to your kid at age 4. So you have no objection then to these therapies being banned as they are unnecessary from your viewpoint?

    Of course, I noticed you didn't answer the question, not every parent thinks to talk to their kids about this at age four. Indeed, a lot of parents seem to avoid discussing sex at all with thier children in the mistaken belief that it will encourage them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    It doesn't work and it's abusive:

    The first five results on Google for "Does Conversion Therapy Work?"

    https://www.livescience.com/25082-ga...apy-facts.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstru...0N#.wkQJLo9BVN

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/b...nt-therapy-all

    https://www.quora.com/Does-voluntary...n-therapy-work



    The following five are no more positive and given that the "practices" have been roundly condemned as not only quackery but harmful in accredited scientific circles and that's there's no credible evidence that homosexuals can be "cured" anyway then what justification is there for "therapy centers" to be open anywhere at all?

    Good for New Hampshire to be the latest state to outlaw such abuse but unfortunately there's still places where it's legal for minors to be forced into what is nothing other than degrading and harmful "treatment".

    How can that be acceptable to anyone?
    It never woks and is not covered by insurance in the USA
    So, what?

    believe it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    So all you need to do is talk to your kid at age 4. So you have no objection then to these therapies being banned as they are unnecessary from your viewpoint?

    Of course, I noticed you didn't answer the question, not every parent thinks to talk to their kids about this at age four. Indeed, a lot of parents seem to avoid discussing sex at all with thier children in the mistaken belief that it will encourage them.
    Funny, kids past puberty have the lowest sex rates since the 1950s.

    As to argument, find someone with a true reason, or belief in a idea to engage.
    So, what?

    believe it!

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