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Thread: The goodness and SEVERITY of God

  1. #16
    Over 2500 post club iouae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Heaven is the biblical word for the spirit dimension.

    According to David, God is omnipresent.

    "Where can I go from Your Spirit?
    Or where can I flee from Your presence?
    If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
    If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there." (Psalm 139:7-8)
    Where can I go from your SPIRIT. God's spirit is omnipresent. Although that word is not biblical. God's spirit departed from Saul, so it was no longer present in Saul. Omnipresent is meaningless because the Bible never uses or defines this term.
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  2. #17
    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Omnipresent is meaningless because the Bible never uses or defines this term.
    God's Spirit resides in us, so wherever we go God is there.

    That's the point David was making.

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    Over 2500 post club iouae's Avatar
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    The greater God's goodness towards one, the greater God's severity if we disappoint God.

    God performed many miracles to bring a no-good, no-prospects slave nation out of Egypt.

    The slaves reject God and His goodness, and want to elect leaders to escape from God and return to their slave-masters back in Egypt.

    I love God's goodness, and I note what God does next. Does God allow them to run away back to Egypt. Surely God could have just turned them loose to their own devices. But that is not how God rolls. God makes them wander for 40 years in the wilderness till they all die out. And here comes the real SEVERITY of God. God swears in His wrath that they will never enter His rest. This is NOT speaking of the rest in the promised land. There was no rest in the promised land. What do most folks casually reading Psa 95:11 get out of it?
    Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

    Likewise Heb 3:11,18 and Heb 4:3,5,11

    Because I understand the SEVERITY of God, I know exactly what kind of rest God is denying this ungrateful slave people. God is swearing by Himself that they will never enter the rest of eternal life.

    THAT is the rest they would not enter into. On the eternal life front, these ingrates were toast. Oh the goodness and SEVERITY of God.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    God's Spirit resides in us, so wherever we go God is there.

    That's the point David was making.
    Fine.
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    Every time God says yes, we praise His goodness.
    But sometimes God says "No" and we take this as severity.
    Yet there is goodness in the severity of God.
    As you know when you say "No" to your child, it is usually for their own good.

    2Co 12:7
    And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
    For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
    And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
    Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
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    TOL Subscriber Zeke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Rom 11:22
    Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

    We all love the goodness of God. We love it when God blesses us, and extends His grace towards us.

    We are less excited about the severity of God, or when God does not extend His grace, or maybe even executes well deserved judgment on us.

    I postulate that one could not have goodness without SEVERITY.

    Let's look at a case in point.

    Before Lucifer fell, God's will was being done in heaven. All were happy and blessed because, well, they lived in heaven.

    Because of God's goodness, angels had free will, including freedom to think anything they wanted - just like us. And at some point in time, Lucifer executed that freedom, but started to think of how nice it would be to live independent of God, and to be a "god" himself. Lucifer, using his freedom, persuaded other angels (also blessed with freedom of thought and choice) to follow Lucifer and to run away from God and heaven, to live in the sides of the North. Thus the angels left their first habitation (heaven), ran away, and tried to establish an independent kingdom of Luciferstan.

    After all, the angels had only ever experienced the goodness of God in heaven. They had no way of knowing how God would react to this act of disobedience. They had only seen the smiling, friendly, good side of the Father.

    Maybe they were surprised when the Father waged war against them, overcame them, and threw them down to earth to live where HE wanted them to live, not where they chose to live in disobedience and rebellion. Not that earth was all that bad. It had its own charms, like dinosaurs, and ferns.

    The fallen angels tried to be independent, but they ended up under the watchful eye of God, with their powers severely limited and curtailed by God.

    God had to do this, to show the remaining angels what life outside the authority of God is like. It rapidly degenerates. Anyone who has seen demon possessed folks knows that demons (fallen angels) are not happy folks. The demons degenerated into the unhappy souls they are today. God's severity on them is a lesson in goodness today. We need God to become and stay good. Without God there is only severity, dismay, frustration, hopelessness, violence, anger, hatred - as manifested by the fallen angels today.
    These characters create the illusionary theme of two powers, one good the other bad when both move and have their being in I AM, the paradox of double vision with its wall of separation keeps the mind busy with thoughts based on appearances of evil verses good that the Father doesn't, that being a state of mind reached by reconciliation of all things John 14:11, into one presence like any elemental be it fire, wind, water etc...can create and destroy, our conscience can do the same bringing us storms or calm depending on our levels of belief in two powers which puts us under the law Romans 2:1-2, no escaping the dream until we see things reconciled in God's kingdom Luke 17:20-21, Acts 17:24, 1 Corinthians 3:16, Ephesians 5:14.
    Trying to awaken the divine principle in the belly of the fish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
    These characters create the illusionary theme of two powers, one good the other bad when both move and have their being in I AM, the paradox of double vision with its wall of separation keeps the mind busy with thoughts based on appearances of evil verses good that the Father doesn't, that being a state of mind reached by reconciliation of all things John 14:11, into one presence like any elemental be it fire, wind, water etc...can create and destroy, our conscience can do the same bringing us storms or calm depending on our levels of belief in two powers which puts us under the law Romans 2:1-2, no escaping the dream until we see things reconciled in God's kingdom Luke 17:20-21, Acts 17:24, 1 Corinthians 3:16, Ephesians 5:14.
    The goodness and SEVERITY of God can be seen in God giving Lucifer more or less what he asked for which was rulership over his own kingdom. And he gave the fallen angels what they asked for, which is to follow Lucifer. Are they happy now? No! They are miserable as sin.

    And there are times God simply gives us what we ask for as our very own punishment. Adam and Eve hid from God, and God gave them the absence of His company. Solomon wanted many women, and God gave him these, and these led him astray.

    The media sometimes has themes of revenge, money grabbing, living lawlessly and licentiously - and portrays this as great fun. But to live a life like this is sheer misery, ending in death.

    The severity of God is demonstrated in that those who ultimately reject Him get exactly what they want - no God in their eternity, and without God their fate is death.

    Sometimes when we try to help others, they reject our help. Then I give them exactly what they want.
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  8. #23
    TOL Subscriber Zeke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    The goodness and SEVERITY of God can be seen in God giving Lucifer more or less what he asked for which was rulership over his own kingdom. And he gave the fallen angels what they asked for, which is to follow Lucifer. Are they happy now? No! They are miserable as sin.

    And there are times God simply gives us what we ask for as our very own punishment. Adam and Eve hid from God, and God gave them the absence of His company. Solomon wanted many women, and God gave him these, and these led him astray.

    The media sometimes has themes of revenge, money grabbing, living lawlessly and licentiously - and portrays this as great fun. But to live a life like this is sheer misery, ending in death.

    The severity of God is demonstrated in that those who ultimately reject Him get exactly what they want - no God in their eternity, and without God their fate is death.

    Sometimes when we try to help others, they reject our help. Then I give them exactly what they want.
    Certainly seems cut and dried to the minds of men but God's mercy and love isn't shackled by dead letters impossibilities.
    Trying to awaken the divine principle in the belly of the fish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke View Post
    Certainly seems cut and dried to the minds of men but God's mercy and love isn't shackled by dead letters impossibilities.
    God's mercy and love is balanced by His SEVERITY, just like heaven is balanced by hell.

    And in God's mercy, the wicked are burnt UP in hell, not ever-burning in hell.

    But the fact that God created a hell fire like molten lava to cast the wicked into is just another example of how goodness and severity provide balance.

    In a good judicial system there is always goodness and severity. Perpetrators cannot be allowed to get away with things, but there are always extenuating circumstances, and mitigating circumstances, and God can forgive the repentant. Its the unrepentant, deliberate sinner for whom severity is reserved.
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    If God is a combination of goodness and severity, then us Christians should reflect that.

    I am sure that if we think back to our good parents and good teachers - they were a combination of goodness and severity. If they were not, I would never have done one stitch of homework.

    Good parents discipline with love. Here we just skip those niceties
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    Let's suppose you are a grandparent. On some special occasion, your two teenage grandsons bring you a gift. The one present you love, and say so. The other grandson brings a gift you are unmoved by. What will you do?

    Will you tell him...
    a) you love his gift
    b) you will say nothing
    c) you dislike the gift, and advise him how he can improve.

    This is a paraphrase from a story in the Bible.

    Spot the story, and give the right answer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Let's suppose you are a grandparent. On some special occasion, your two teenage grandsons bring you a gift. The one present you love, and say so. The other grandson brings a gift you are unmoved by. What will you do?

    Will you tell him...
    a) you love his gift
    b) you will say nothing
    c) you dislike the gift, and advise him how he can improve.

    This is a paraphrase from a story in the Bible.

    Spot the story, and give the right answer.
    You will recognise the story from Gen 1:4 where God is the grandfather of Cain and chooses option c, a much tougher choice than many of us would make.
    Stop the culling of Cape Town's baboons!

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