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Thread: No Valid Defense/Excuse for Adultery ... EVER ....

  1. #106
    Member of the 10 year club on TOL!! CabinetMaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Okay, but do you see the difference between someone casually sleeping around without a care for their spouse and someone trapped in a sham of a marriage who seeks some warmth elsewhere? I'm not asking you to say it's okay but there's a world of difference between the two.
    I see the difference. I'm not sure that God does. The commandment says thou shalt not commit adultery. It does not say thou shalt not commit adultery unless you're in a loveless marriage or abusive marriage or anything else.

    To your point, that is exactly why the world needed Jesus. We cannot possibly hope to live up to the standards set by the law but Jesus died for those transgressions. And, in point of fact, I do think that that Jesus' sacrifice does change the way God looks at us. The person who screws up and has a brief affair that they end and are remorseful for and works to make amends is VERY different from the person who sleeps around for fun. I believe that the one who is repentant of their sin is washed clean by Jesus. The other has embraced a lifestyle that embraces rebellion to God.

    In general, no matter how much we may understand and even empathize with somebody who has an affair, I cannot think of any instance where having an affair makes anything better in terms of repairing that which is broken.
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

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  3. #107
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    You could have brought up the example in Scripture of those woman caught in adultery, but forgiven of it by the Christ.

    I'm sure you are vaguely aware there are such accounts in Scripture - most people are; whether Bible Believers, or not.

    For that matter, what the Apostle Paul says about this issue.

    Come on AB, know the other side's possible holes in their argument.



    Rom. 5:6-8.
    Well, that's been brought up so many times before and usually the excuses given for why Jesus didn't condemn the woman revolve along the lines of avoiding a legal trap set by the Pharisees. Never mind that the crowd were convicted of their own sins which for some may well have included the very same etc...
    Well this is fun isn't it?


  4. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    My issue with that would be the "trapped" part. If I am so trapped I cannot leave my marriage, I am too trapped to cheat. I DO believe that someone can have an emotional reaction and cheat. I would empathize with them and still tell them they were wrong. An adulterous affair for an emotionally wounded spouse is similar to an afternoon at the beach to take your mind off of your sunburn. It might be enjoyable for the moment, but just wait until the added burn sets in ...
    There is always J-Lo's character's route, in the movie "Enough."

    Man o man did she give that jerk of a husband his well-deserved comeuppance.

    Just love that movie.

    Here is that scene.

    WARNING: Violence.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxy4iFsQlgA&app=desktop



    Rom. 5:6-8.

    __________________

    Note 1: Actually, a few months later, not "later that day..."

    Note 2: She's using a martial art known as Krav Maya. It's a very highly effective, rapid fighting skill development art developed by the Israeli's.

  5. #109
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    I see the difference. I'm not sure that God does. The commandment says thou shalt not commit adultery. It does not say thou shalt not commit adultery unless you're in a loveless marriage or abusive marriage or anything else.

    To your point, that is exactly why the world needed Jesus. We cannot possibly hope to live up to the standards set by the law but Jesus died for those transgressions. And, in point of fact, I do think that that Jesus' sacrifice does change the way God looks at us. The person who screws up and has a brief affair that they end and are remorseful for and works to make amends is VERY different from the person who sleeps around for fun. I believe that the one who is repentant of their sin is washed clean by Jesus. The other has embraced a lifestyle that embraces rebellion to God.

    In general, no matter how much we may understand and even empathize with somebody who has an affair, I cannot think of any instance where having an affair makes anything better in terms of repairing that which is broken.
    Well, having an affair sure isn't going to mend a broken marriage. I'm more arguing that if a marriage is beyond repair then someone finding a relationship with someone else isn't going to make much difference one way or the other. I get what you and Rusha are saying and you're arguing from a religious perspective which is fair enough. Some people think that divorce itself is wrong on those grounds.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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  7. #110
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    Rusha,

    You wrote, a thread title, No Valid Defense/Excuse for Adultery ... EVER ....

    I agree. Amen.

    Jacob
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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  9. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Well, having an affair sure isn't going to mend a broken marriage. I'm more arguing that if a marriage is beyond repair then someone finding a relationship with someone else isn't going to make much difference one way or the other. I get what you and Rusha are saying and you're arguing from a religious perspective which is fair enough. Some people think that divorce itself is wrong on those grounds.
    My feeling would be that a person should wait until their divorce is final before stepping out. Its not easy, but I think it is wiser.

    I've had reason and opportunity to look into what scripture has to say about divorce. What I have come to understand, an understanding that will no doubt get me into hot water with my fellow Christians, is that divorce, specifically a first divorce, is not a problem. To be sure, a divorce is hated by God and should never be undertaken lightly, but I do not believe that God EVER intended that somebody remained trapped within an abusive marriage. The much bigger and thornier issue has to do with remarriage. At least within the Christian community.
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

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  11. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Well, that's been brought up so many times before and usually the excuses given for why Jesus didn't condemn the woman revolve along the lines of avoiding a legal trap set by the Pharisees. Never mind that the crowd were convicted of their own sins which for some may well have included the very same etc...
    And the woman in John 4?

    John 4:15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw. 4:16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 4:17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 4:18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

    Then along come the Extremists...

    4:27 And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her?

    But they were too late. The woman had already believed on Him, at which point, she went to tell others about Him...

    4:28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men, 4:29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ? 4:30 Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.

    His disciples, meanwhile, continued in their usual Archie Bunker Blue Collar ignorance of the obvious that was right before their very eyes - that even an adultress had been able to see.

    4:31 In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat. 4:32 But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.

    Rom. 5:6-8.

    __________

    In their defense, the Twelve were simple, Popeye and Brutus like fishermen; as such, they were bound to be prone to a moment's Extremism here and there.

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  13. #113
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    My feeling would be that a person should wait until their divorce is final before stepping out. Its not easy, but I think it is wiser.
    I respect that but I also can't blame anyone for having a relationship knowing full well that the only thing officially ending a marriage is a certificate.

    I've had reason and opportunity to look into what scripture has to say about divorce. What I have come to understand, an understanding that will no doubt get me into hot water with my fellow Christians, is that divorce, specifically a first divorce, is not a problem. To be sure, a divorce is hated by God and should never be undertaken lightly, but I do not believe that God EVER intended that somebody remained trapped within an abusive marriage. The much bigger and thornier issue has to do with remarriage. At least within the Christian community.
    I wouldn't even argue that a loving God would be happy for anyone to remain trapped in an abusive marriage so no disagreement there. Where it comes to remarriage it does seem to be a thorny and contentious issue although I appreciate your reasoned comments even if they do get you in "trouble" with certain elements...

    Well this is fun isn't it?


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  15. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    I respect that but I also can't blame anyone for having a relationship knowing full well that the only thing officially ending a marriage is a certificate.
    My very un-scriptural response to this is to point out that that certificate is generated by what is usually a fairly lengthy legal process. Those proceeding can, and frequently do, become quite contentious. If you soon to be ex can turn up dirt on you that you were having an affair then you could lose your children because you are morally unfit to be a parent.


    I wouldn't even argue that a loving God would be happy for anyone to remain trapped in an abusive marriage so no disagreement there. Where it comes to remarriage it does seem to be a thorny and contentious issue although I appreciate your reasoned comments even if they do get you in "trouble" with certain elements...

    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

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  17. #115
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    My very un-scriptural response to this is to point out that that certificate is generated by what is usually a fairly lengthy legal process. Those proceeding can, and frequently do, become quite contentious. If you soon to be ex can turn up dirt on you that you were having an affair then you could lose your children because you are morally unfit to be a parent.
    Well, I think in those cases it's more likely to bite folk in the behind if they were having an affair before the relationship actually hit the rocks but fair point.

    Well this is fun isn't it?


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  19. #116
    Censorship is the height of vanity Rusha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    There is always J-Lo's character's route, in the movie "Enough."

    Man o man did she give that jerk of a husband his well-deserved comeuppance.

    Just love that movie.

    Here is that scene.

    WARNING: Violence.
    I remember that movie well. What a beautiful ending!
    As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes."
    When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics."
    When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty
    -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.
    - ABRAHAM LINCOLN, letter to Joshua F. Speed, August 22, 1855





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