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Thread: God decides who does or doesn't believe.

  1. #106
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post
    The good I want to do I cannot. The evil I would not do, I do...

    Hebrews 12:4
    4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
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    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    God doesn't want us to be soulless puppets, therefore He has determined that we must choose Him before we are accepted.
    Agreed...
    I Champion GODís holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

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    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
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    First we established our own fate as either elect or non-elect by our free will then the elect established their moral nature as either holy or sinful. Then when the sinful elect, who had lost their free will to the enslaving addiction of evil, were to live with the eternally evil non-elect, GOD predestined their LIVES to conform to their sinfulness to open the eyes of the sinful elect to their great and true guilt so they could be brought to redemption and rebirth like Adam and Eve, their free will restored.
    I Champion GODís holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

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    Over 4000 post club oatmeal's Avatar
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    Who has opposed Gods will?

    I have and so has everyone else who has sinned.

    Everyone who has disobeyed God.

    That is who has opposed Gods will.

    Truth is truth.

    Gods word is truth. John 17:17.

    Truth does not change.

    Anyone who thinks they can have "their own truth" is wrong unless that truth is what God declares is true

  5. #110
    Over 1500 post club Faither's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by preacherman57 View Post
    Now that I have your attention. Too many people believe that man has free will (which is an illusion) and that man's will is stronger than God's will. They won't state it that way. Rather, the statement goes along this line, "God is a gentleman and will never force any person to do anything against their will."
    Of course, this is just one of the many fallacies spouted out that contradict Scripture. If that statement is true, then answer Paul's question in Rom 9:19, "For who hath resisted his will?"
    The answer is nobody can resist (oppose, withstand) God's will.
    Rom 9:16-21
    Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardenth ( Wait a sec, does that mean God doesn't give mercy to all people?)
    Thou will say to me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
    Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest(talks back, questions) against God. Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why has thou made me thus( like this)?
    Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?
    I can promise that this chapter of Romans is never read or taught on in the average church building. Preachers hate the ninth chapter of Romans. If you have never read Rom, chap 9, you should. Very important info is contained in the chapter.
    The main tenet of the Evangelical world, the core belief, the Holy Grail is that man's will is the strongest force in the universe and that no member of the Trinity can make a person do something against that person's will. This is so very evident by the following statements proclaimed ad nausum by the Pharisees:
    " Give God permission to work through you."
    "Allow the Holy Spirit to lead you."
    " Let God have his way."
    "Let God be your pilot."
    " Give Jesus the steering wheel."
    "Surrender to Jesus."
    "Let God be God."
    "God want's to..."
    " God desires that..."
    All of these ignorant statenents and similar promote the lie that God/Jesus/Holy Spirit are all powerless to do anything to a person without permission. Excuse me, can anybody show me even one verse where this concept is expressed. One verse thst shows that a person prevented God from doing what God had purposed?
    Evangelicals, while they may not be aware of it, actually believe in humanism. What arrogance! To think that a weak, sinful created creature is stronger than the all-powerful, mighty, terrible God!
    The biblical reality is that God is sovereign over everything in the universe He created, including salvation. The strongest force in the universe is God's intrepid will.

    Psalm 115:3 But our God is in heaven. He hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

    Psalm 135:6 Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.

    My favorite, Dan 4:35 And all of the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing.: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay(hinder, stop, change, prevent) his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? (Question what God does, as if God is accountable to man)

    Isa 46:9-10. Remember the former things of old: for I am God and there is none else; I am God and there is none like me. Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying My counsel (purpose) shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure(what God decides to do)

    Ep 1:11...according to the purpose of him(God) who worketh all things after the counsel (purpose) of his own will.

    Now, that is pretty easy to see that God is sovereign and that everything he purposes does come to pass. And nobody or anything can prevent God's will from happening. I nust point out that in none of theses verses is there any hint or mention of how God needs man's " permission" to act as God has decided to act.
    As I write these things, i know for a fact that there will be people who will not see the truth presented in the verses. They will not believe or they will reject the truth. People who claim to believe God's word do not believe God's word. They only believe what they think God's word "should" say in their Evangelical view. And why is this the reality? I'm about to show you. Unfortunately for those goats who don't believe, I am again going to use more of God's word.

    Deut 29:2-4
    And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them,
    " Ye have seen (with your physical eyes) all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharsoh, all of the Egyptians and unto all of his land. The great temptations(tests) which you saw with your own eyes, you saw the signs and great miracles. YET THE LORD HATH NOT GIVEN YOU AN HEART TO PERCIEVE, AND EYES (spiritual eyes) TO SEE AND EARS (spuritual ears) TO HEAR UNTO THIS DAY.

    God has to give a person spiritual eyes and ears in order for that person to comprehend and believe truth. No person has the abilty to "chose" to believe biblical truth. No person, in their natural state, can discern, of his own will, intellect, wisdom, etc. spiritual truth. The truth is there in plain sight, if God enables you to see it. If God doesn't give you the spiritual eyes to see the truth, you can live a thoudand years, have the entire bible memorized, have 30 degrees, study for a thousand years and you will never see the truth.

    Jn 3:12 If I have told you earthly things and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

    1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man recieveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: niether can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.

    1Cor 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us ( every time the words, "us" or "we" are used in the N.T., they refer to believers only) by his Spirit...


    Job 33:16 Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction.

    Psalm 78:32 For all this they sinned still, and believed not for his wonderous works.

    Psalm 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

    Psalm 119:73 Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments.

    Pro 20:11 The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made both of them.
    (Obviously this is not refering to the physically only)

    Isa 6:10 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but percieve not.

    Isa 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes. the prophets, your rulers, the seers hath he covered ( concealed the truth)

    Jer 4:10 Then said I. Ah Lord God! Surely thou hast greatly deceived this people...

    Jer 5:21 Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not.

    Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land...but of hearing the words of the Lord.

    Mat 13:10-11
    ...Why speaketh thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

    Mat 13:16-17 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.


    Mk 4:11-12 And he said unto them, "Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but to them that are without(goats) all these things are done in parables.
    That seeing they may see, and not percieve; and hearing they may hear, but not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven.

    Now, consider this. The Evangelicals claim that God and Jesus "want" all people to "get saved" ( There is no concept of people "getting saved" in Scripture) Yet, through his own words, Jesus purposely kept the truth hidden to some! He blatantly states that all people are not to be saved. What is faith? Belief in the truth. In order to be saved, one has to beleve the truth. Yet, Jesus made sure that some people would be kept from the truth. Hmmm. Jesus, by hiding the truth, purposely makes sure that there are those who will not have any chance, ever, of having their sins forgiven. This is the real Jesus of the bible, the Son of God, not the made up sissy Jesus of the Evangelicals.

    Mat 11:25-26
    At that time Jesus answered and said, "I thank thee O Fsther, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise, prudent and hast revealed them unto babes( someone new to the faith)
    Even so, Father: for it seemed good in thy sigbt.

    Let me get this straight, Jesus gavr thanks that God hid truth? And, to God, it was a good thing to hide truth from peopke? That doesn't sound right, does it? No, that doesn't sound right to Evangelicals and the made-up God and Jesus taught by the Pharisees.

    Jn 10: 6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not ...

    Jn 10: 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice...

    Jn 10:26-27

    Many teach that one "becomes" a sheep after they "accept Christ" ( A phrase not found in Scripture) One is either born a sheep or a goat. In order to hear Jesus, one must already be a sheep.

    Jn 12:37-40

    Jn 8:43-44 Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father, the devil...

    Notice, Jesus said, because you CANNOT hear my word. Cannot, unable to hear, Jesus did not say, bevause you will not, or, because you rejected me.
    Wow, Jesus wasn't very nice when he told the Pharisses they were the children of the devil. I guess he really showed them, shared with them, God's love, right? Aren't we supposed to share God's love with all people?

    Jn 18:37...Everyone that is of the truth heareth my voice.

    Acts 16:14
    The Lord opened her heart.

    Acts 22:9

    Rom 11:7-8

    2Cor 3:14 But their minds were blinded.

    2Cor 4: 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost.

    This does not say "because they rejected Jesus, that the gospel would now be hid. It is hid from those from the start, the lost will never have a chance to "get saved"

    I could show more verses, but there is no need. I have given plenty of evidence of what I titled this post. If God "wants" everybody to get saved, if He prusues people, if He is wooing people, inviting people to "get saved" why wouldn't he give all people the eyes and ears to see, comprehend and believe the truth. No, he purposely gives some the truth and purposely hides the truth from others. It must be his purpose. And please dont try to telk me that big lie that, "God has seen who will believe and gets the truth to those.








    Sent from my LG-M327 using Tapatalk
    accepting , that the English words " believe, believer, and believing " are mistranslations that occurred as the result of the English not having a verb form of the noun "Faith" like the Greek does, could be the first step in todays church worlds recovery....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    Don't be so NAIVE. No doubt, there are many people who go around saying they're 'Born Again' but they're not.

    How do you know you are?
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
    5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
    6 But now we are delivered [Redeemed} from the law, that being dead wherein we were held [captive]; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." Romans 7:4-6 (KJV)

    How can our release from the "letter" happen except by an outside Personality Who paid the price for our release. OMT: This has nothing to do with being born again but done by God with a Hope that many would pursue to know Him for which the new birth is but the necessary beginning of the journey unto sonship in Him per john 17:3 . . . . This relates to Romans 8:20 KJV as being how Adam was to become as Jesus was while on Earth that by the new birth we are given to become.
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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