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Thread: Liberal extremists.

  1. #91
    Over 4000 post club WizardofOz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    Hahahaha nyc was buying one way tickets to Honolulu for there bums a few years ago.


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    Are 'there bums' a brand name?
    “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

    ― Theodore Roosevelt

    Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem

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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz View Post
    Are 'there bums' a brand name?
    You’re one of em


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  3. #93
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    Hahahaha nyc was buying one way tickets to Honolulu for there bums a few years ago.
    New York is still handing out one way flight tickets, at least inside the continental U.S., if the person has a connection to the new locale and can establish residence there (through family and/or a promised employment). I don't know about Hawaii. I haven't seen anything on that. I know I read an article about Hawaii considering doing it to decrease the impact of their homeless population on tourism a few years ago, but I don't know if they wen't through with it (link).
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Is this tacit admission that liberals are extremists?
    Of course not. Why would you think that?

    They tend to fight for child killing.
    They really don't. In point of fact, it's hard to find many people who oppose abortion out of hand. Mostly it's a matter of where the line should be drawn. For many who oppose it as an elective procedure the endangerment of the mother's life changes their position. For some it's late term pregnancies. For a few it's any point past conception. Some of that few are found in either camp, with Catholics comprising the majority of the liberal anti-abortion without exception grouping.

    Liberals tend to support the right established by a conservative appointed Court, sadly (either). A lot of that support is conditional and some of it is wavering, which is why you have pro-life movements within the Democratic Party.

    What else do you want?
    What you only just told me you'd proffered. I didn't recall anything outside of the issue by you but you gave the direct impression of a list to support your contention and the one isn't that. So I asked in case I'd missed it.
    What could possibly be worse?
    Does something have to be worse to be in the running? I think facilitating slaughter for no particularly good reason is pretty grotesque. That's what people who support the status quo or lesser law in relation to guns are doing, for one.

    So I can hardly be called inconsistent for defining terms by their plain meaning except in the case of liberals. Especially when it obviously does not mean what it plainly says.
    I'm not sure what that's responsive to, but it's been a busy day, so it could be me. Not sure how you sustain the last part. I don't believe you've done it, but if you can I'm game to read it.

    They also call child killing a right.
    No, the really don't. They call abortion rights what they are in this country. If they were convinced it was child killing they'd likely be on the right side of the point. That's part of the problem and name calling won't solve it.

    I'm convinced the problem is that most of the largely conditional, even tenuous support for the thing is born of an emotional response to an emotion laden entreaty and a general confusion/lack of application of simple, clear, and compelling reason. I don't believe they've thought it through. Now you have the minority of zealots on the point who have and who I believe are at best deluded and at worst willful participants in a narcissistic evil, but I suspect most of those supporting the practice can be won over with consistent, civil, and compelling reason.

    What people think about themselves is irrelevant.
    Rather, it's everything to the person. What you or I think of anyone else is only relevant to us, but I suspect most people aren't as solidly in a camp outside of a general sense of alignment on guiding principles. A lot of qualifications after that.

    They're illegal. Unless you're talking about soldiers.
    They aren't made legally and are difficult to come by for a private citizen, but possible. It's complicated. Of course, with the bump stock and a semi-automatic it's a bit moot as points go.

    Those aren't automatic weapons.
    An AR-15 is a semi-automatic weapon. The bump stock isn't a weapon at all. It's a device that transforms a weapon like the AR-15 into a de facto machinegun. My nearest neighbor to the north has one. He's a responsible guy from a good family. He collects weapons because he likes to fire them and own them. It's his hobby.

    What on Earth are you talking about?
    I was demonstrating that simpler isn't necessarily preferable.

    I mean exactly what I said before you started debating: Liberals rename horrific ideas with nice-sounding terms. Public education, pro-choice, gun control...
    And I meant what I, as gently and civilly as I could manage it, implied, which is that you're wrong on the point. Public education and gun control are both good ideas and their defense is both rational and empirical in nature. Pro-choice is a horrible idea, but it's not nice-sounding, only indicative of the root of the error for those supporting it.

    "Taxes" is not a nice term. It's not an example of what I'm saying.
    The whole "nice" approach is too subjective to use meaningfully anyway.

    Public education is a horrific idea.
    So you said already, but saying doesn't make a thing so, let alone demonstrate it as an unassailable truth. And so I set out specifically why that isn't the case and why people on the whole, both conservative and liberal, differ with you.

    Yes, it was.
    In your mind perhaps, but not on the page. No quote, no link, only your declaration on the point.

    I'm not a conservative.
    You identify as a right winger. In general terms that aligns you with conservative camps, however qualified in particulars.

    Another fundamental is that everyone will give an account for their life.
    Another fundamental truth for some is that no one will exist beyond this life and therefore no one will give anything.

    So outside of the empirical, fundamentalism is as individual as anything else.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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  6. #95
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    taking away individual freedom can be liberal, or conservative.

    Not the Gestalt prayer.

    Do you know it?
    So, what?

    believe it!

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  8. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Why would you think that?
    Because the assertion is that liberals tend to fight for child killing.

    They really don't.
    They really do.

    It's hard to find many people who oppose abortion.
    So?

    What you only just told me you'd proffered. I didn't recall anything outside of the issue by you but you gave the direct impression of a list to support your contention and the one isn't that. So I asked in case I'd missed it.
    You should stop responding to impressions you get and just read what I say.

    Does something have to be worse to be in the running?
    No.

    Liberals support child killing. That makes them extremists.

    I think facilitating slaughter for no particularly good reason is pretty grotesque. That's what people who support the status quo or lesser law in relation to guns are doing, for one.
    Does endorsing car ownership also mean one "facilitates slaughter"?

    I'm not sure what that's responsive to.
    It's pretty simple:

    As a fundamentalist, I treat ideas and descriptions according to what they plainly say unless there is good reason not to. So a fundamentalist is a guy who holds ideas up against a few key truths. A conservative is a guy who did to protect the status quo. However, a liberal is not a guy who values freedom above all. They tend to think regulations are the answer to problems.

    No, the really don't. They call abortion rights what they are in this country. If they were convinced it was child killing they'd likely be on the right side of the point. That's part of the problem and name calling won't solve it.
    It's of no relevance what words they use or what they are convinced of.

    I suspect most of those supporting the practice can be won over with consistent, civil, and compelling reason.
    It's worth a try.

    Rather, it's everything to the person.
    Nope. Not "rather."

    What people think about themselves is irrelevant to this discussion.

    They aren't made legally and are difficult to come by for a private citizen, but possible. It's complicated. Of course, with the bump stock and a semi-automatic it's a bit moot as points go.
    So are you retracting your assertion about submachine guns being a problem in society?

    An AR-15 is a semi-automatic weapon. The bump stock isn't a weapon.
    Like I said: They're not automatic weapons.

    I was demonstrating that simpler isn't necessarily preferable.
    Nobody said it was.

    Public education and gun control are both good ideas.
    Horrid things.

    I prefer liberty.

    The whole "nice" approach is too subjective to use meaningfully anyway.
    Which group is it that faces the accusation of using nice terms to describe horrific ideas?

    In your mind perhaps, but not on the page. No quote, no link, only your declaration on the point.
    Quip replied to OP, I replied to Quip. It's in the first posts.

    You identify as a right winger. In general terms that aligns you with conservative camps, however qualified in particulars.
    Being "aligned" with conservatives doesn't make me a conservative.

    I'm not a conservative.

    Another fundamental truth for some is that no one will exist beyond this life and therefore no one will give anything.

    So outside of the empirical, fundamentalism is as individual as anything else.
    Nope. It doesn't matter what people believe.

    What matters is what is true.

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    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
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    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

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    Here's a post Town desperately wants you to read.

  9. #97
    Over 4000 post club WizardofOz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    You’re one of em


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    One of what, 'there bums'?
    “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

    ― Theodore Roosevelt

    Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem

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  11. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz View Post
    One of what, 'there bums'?
    Yes you’re the wizard of there bums as in rears


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  12. #99
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Because the assertion is that liberals tend to fight for child killing.
    That largely isn't what they're fighting for, which goes back to my assertion about why so many of them can be moved. Beyond that I'm not sure what position on the point isn't extreme. The assertion of right or its absence and the nature of the outcome of that argument is literally life and death. To label a group extreme for the one point doesn't make any more sense than it would to label an anarchist who supported the right to bear arms a conservative.

    They really do.
    So you said before, but I wrote more than a simple, unsupported declaration.

    Here it is again in case you feel like engaging more substantively:

    "They really don't. In point of fact, it's hard to find many people who oppose abortion out of hand. Mostly it's a matter of where the line should be drawn. For many who oppose it as an elective procedure the endangerment of the mother's life changes their position. For some it's late term pregnancies. For a few it's any point past conception. Some of that few are found in either camp, with Catholics comprising the majority of the liberal anti-abortion without exception grouping.

    Liberals tend to support the right established by a conservative appointed Court, sadly (either). A lot of that support is conditional and some of it is wavering, which is why you have pro-life movements within the Democratic Party."


    You should stop responding to impressions you get and just read what I say.
    It wasn't an impression. You literally wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    That's true.However, I've put forward things they tend to believe as reason.
    Things. As in more than one.

    Does endorsing car ownership also mean one "facilitates slaughter"?
    Cars aren't designed to kill people and we have to have them.

    It's pretty simple: As a fundamentalist, I treat ideas and descriptions according to what they plainly say unless there is good reason not to.
    Oh, then I've addressed the point. The problem is with the subjective nature of good reason, absent a serious set out of the particulars and an objective litmus.

    So a fundamentalist is a guy who holds ideas up against a few key truths.
    Fundamental absolutes. Okay, that sounds reasonable.

    A conservative is a guy who did to protect the status quo.
    I think you're short changing conservatives. What historically separates the fundamentalist from the conservative has been that fundamentalism tends to be used with respect to religious principle and conservatism tends to be applied to political/economical realities. That's why they tend to be the same animal, though you could be a religious fundamentalist without being a fiscal conservative, and likened variations.

    However, a liberal is not a guy who values freedom above all. They tend to think regulations are the answer to problems.
    You're conflating a principle and method. The real difference between conservatives and liberals isn't their valuation of the individual, but the method by which the individual is best served.

    It's of no relevance what words they use or what they are convinced of.
    Not if you care about changing minds and moving the issue to a different conclusion.

    It's worth a try.
    So which is it?

    Nope. Not "rather."
    I'm mostly going to stop responding to any point where you just declare a thing more than once without supporting it rationally, to save both of us time. I'll also set aside attempts to move goal posts by subtly altering an actual point transforming it into a pointless sidebar, as with your attempt on submachine guns.

    Nobody said it was.
    You said it was simpler to just look at what a word means. I noted and illustrated that simpler isn't necessarily better or even preferable, depending.

    On public education and gun control.
    Horrid things.

    I prefer liberty.
    And that is a beautiful non sequitur. Pancakes. Tilt-a-whirls. I prefer liberty. Just plug in anything, really. I've set out particular support for public education as a good, one agreed upon by the majority of conservatives and liberals, and why revisiting gun restrictions (a thing also universally agreed upon, the difference coming with particulars and by degree) are both necessary and in the service of the public good.

    Which group is it that faces the accusation of using nice terms to describe horrific ideas?
    From you or from someone else?

    Quip replied to OP, I replied to Quip. It's in the first posts.
    Not a part of my argument. So okay.

    Being "aligned" with conservatives doesn't make me a conservative. I'm not a conservative.
    What conservative ideas do you reject?

    What matters is what is true.
    Everyone believes that. That's not the problem or the dividing point.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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    I was going to chide you, Town, for even bothering to reply to him. However, as I went through your reply, it was so reasoned and so well exposed his faulty thinking (or lack of thinking) that it turned out to be a highly effective and useful post.

    Well done.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

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    Over 4000 post club WizardofOz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    Yes you’re the wizard of there bums as in rears


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "There bums".

    Where?
    “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

    ― Theodore Roosevelt

    Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem

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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz View Post

    "There bums".

    Where?
    Bend down grab ankles and look up


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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    Bend down grab ankles and look up


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Finally. You realize your error. Well done.

    It's not like it took long
    “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

    ― Theodore Roosevelt

    Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem

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  20. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz View Post
    Finally. You realize your error. Well done.

    It's not like it took long
    Oh, that's a bit optimistic...

    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Mr and mrs hate whitey


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