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Thread: Jesus taught existence after death

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    You say He lied when He said His friend was dead...

    And nothing about flames or Abraham’s bosom...


    absence of evidence is not evidence


    you say Abraham & Lazarus were not in the place referred to as "Abraham side" you say a lie
    you say "Abraham side" where Abraham & Lazarus were does not exist , you say that place is a lie
    Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,

    you say the rich man did not go to "Hades", you say a lie
    you say the place "Hades" where the rich man went does not exist , you say that place is a lie
    Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post


    absence of evidence is not evidence


    you say Abraham & Lazarus were not in the place referred to as "Abraham side" you say a lie
    you say "Abraham side" where Abraham & Lazarus were does not exist , you say that place is a lie
    Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,

    you say the rich man did not go to "Hades", you say a lie
    you say the place "Hades" where the rich man went does not exist , you say that place is a lie
    Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
    The irony...

    https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2012/03/19...ce-of-absence/

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    The irony...

    the truth is you don't believe Moses and the prophets, and neither did the rich man
    and are not convinced by Jesus rising from the dead

    Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
    Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
    Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
    Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    the truth is you don't believe Moses and the prophets, and neither did the rich man
    and are not convinced by Jesus rising from the dead

    Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
    Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
    Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
    Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

    And now as typical...you must resort to false witness and weak attempts to slander...


    Abraham was not laid on his own bosom...Moses was also not laid on Abraham’s bosom...neither were any of the prophets...

    The One risen from the dead made no mention of seeing Abraham or flames...and NO ONE in real life was placed there...but He made clear that they were dead...and He brought their reward at the resurrection day...

    Even poor Stephen stoned at the feet of Saul fell asleep...not into Abraham’s bosom...Acts 7:60

    Still waiting for you to find that OT text He allegedly quoted Abraham on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    And now as typical...you must resort to false witness and weak attempts to slander...
    Abraham was not laid on his own bosom...Moses was also not laid on Abraham’s bosom...neither were any of the prophets...
    just saying I know you do not believe

    you said : So the story claims Abraham said that but Abraham ACTUALLY didnt...

    you say Abraham & Lazarus were not in the place referred to as "Abraham side" you say a lie
    you say "Abraham side" where Abraham & Lazarus were does not exist , you say that place is a lie
    Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,

    you say the rich man did not go to "Hades", you say a lie
    you say the place "Hades" where the rich man went does not exist , you say that place is a lie
    Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.


    The One risen from the dead made no mention of seeing Abraham or flames...and NO ONE in real life was placed there...but He made clear that they were dead...and He brought their reward at the resurrection day...
    Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad."

    Even poor Stephen stoned at the feet of Saul fell asleep...not into Abraham’s bosom...Acts 7:60
    Act 7:59 And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

    Still waiting for you to find that OT text He allegedly quoted Abraham on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    just saying I know you do not believe

    you said : So the story claims Abraham said that but Abraham ACTUALLY didnt...

    you say Abraham & Lazarus were not in the place referred to as "Abraham side" you say a lie
    you say "Abraham side" where Abraham & Lazarus were does not exist , you say that place is a lie
    Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,

    you say the rich man did not go to "Hades", you say a lie
    you say the place "Hades" where the rich man went does not exist , you say that place is a lie
    Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
    Folk tales are fun...


    Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad."
    hmmm...notice Abraham is not rejoicing still...and he “was glad” NOT “IS glad”...

    Act 7:59 And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
    Right...bodies to dust...spirit to Giver...all good there...and he is NOT up there naked/not clothed with the building of heaven

    As if he is fluttering about only as a spirit unable to eat of the tree of life...

    But come resurrection day when his spirit returns to him he will rise just like the little resurrected girl whose spirit returned to her...but Stephen will not die again...she did...




    Yup...there should be an OT text of Abraham saying what you insist he actually said...

    Or it remains a folk tale...a fun one...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Folk tales are fun...


    hmmm...notice Abraham is not rejoicing still...and he “was glad” NOT “IS glad”...



    Right...bodies to dust...spirit to Giver...all good there...and he is NOT up there naked/not clothed with the building of heaven

    As if he is fluttering about only as a spirit unable to eat of the tree of life...

    But come resurrection day when his spirit returns to him he will rise just like the little resurrected girl whose spirit returned to her...but Stephen will not die again...she did...




    Yup...there should be an OT text of Abraham saying what you insist he actually said...

    Or it remains a folk tale...a fun one...
    Hey, Clefty, question for you.

    What did Jesus say in Gethsemane about going to the cross? Did He say there was any other way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Hey, Clefty, question for you.

    What did Jesus say in Gethsemane about going to the cross? Did He say there was any other way?
    Only one way...His Will (the Father’s) be done...not His own...

    To the cross and beyond...”not Lord! Lord! But those that do My Father’s will”

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Only one way...His Will (the Father’s) be done...not His own...

    To the cross and beyond...”not Lord! Lord! But those that do My Father’s will”
    Correct. He said if there be any other way, let this cup pass. But there wasn't any other way, was there? So He continued with going to the cross.

    Now, Clefty, if there was any other way to deal with sin, do you think Christ would have done it? Say.... Annihilating mankind and starting over?

    You see, when Christ said if there is any other way, He meant it. There really was no other way to deal with sin. Annihilation of man was not an option.

    And it still isn't.

    This is one of the main reasons we know that there is existence after death, because God cannot wipe out those who rebel against Him. It's not possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Correct. He said if there be any other way, let this cup pass. But there wasn't any other way, was there? So He continued with going to the cross.

    Now, Clefty, if there was any other way to deal with sin, do you think Christ would have done it? Say.... Annihilating mankind and starting over?

    You see, when Christ said if there is any other way, He meant it. There really was no other way to deal with sin. Annihilation of man was not an option.

    And it still isn't.

    This is one of the main reasons we know that there is existence after death, because God cannot wipe out those who rebel against Him. It's not possible.



    clefty does not want to see

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Folk tales are fun...
    you say Abraham & Lazarus were not in the place referred to as "Abraham side" you say a lie .
    you say "Abraham side" where Abraham & Lazarus were does not exist , you say that place is a lie .
    You say Jesus lied.
    Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,

    you say the rich man did not go to "Hades", you say a lie .
    you say the place "Hades" where the rich man went does not exist , you say that place is a lie .
    You say Jesus lied.
    Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

    hmmm...notice Abraham is not rejoicing still...and he “was glad” NOT “IS glad”...
    yup
    Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad."

    and Jesus was crucified
    Mar 16:6 And he said to them, "Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen; he is not here. See the place where they laid him.



    Right...bodies to dust...spirit to Giver...all good there...and he is NOT up there naked/not clothed with the building of heaven
    yup your spirit continues to exist after death
    Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
    Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

    As if he is fluttering about only as a spirit unable to eat of the tree of life...

    But come resurrection day when his spirit returns to him he will rise just like the little resurrected girl whose spirit returned to her...but Stephen will not die again...she did...
    all you have is conjecture

    I have evidence to the contrary
    Rev_6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

    law of contradiction

    • the law that a proposition cannot be both true and false or that a thing cannot both have and not have a given property.




    Yup...there should be an OT text of Abraham saying what you insist he actually said...
    you do not believe Jesus and Jesus said you wouldn't.

    Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
    Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
    Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
    Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

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