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Thread: Righteousness by Faith / Not by Rules, Laws or Religion

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    Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.

    This is why Paul said to the Galatians... "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?" Galatians 4:21.

    The law demands perfection. No one has it to offer.

    This is why Jesus abolished the law. It was contrary to us, no one can keep it or do it, Colossians 2:14.

    Christians no longer need laws or rules because, "The law was not made for the righteous Man, but for the lawless and disobedient" 1 Timothy 1:9.

    The word of God stands true. The word of man is just a blowing in the wind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.
    But sometimes a person may just get a warning ticket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    But sometimes a person may just get a warning ticket.
    Not under the law.

    Under the law you are judged and condemned. There is no mercy under the law. This is why Paul said to the Galatians, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?" Galatians 4:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Not under the law.

    Under the law you are judged and condemned. There is no mercy under the law. This is why Paul said to the Galatians, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?" Galatians 4:21.
    Devil child Pate asserts, on record, that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt/IOU, paying our debt, in our place, as the solution, and, instead, asserts, on record, that this "Jesus" is an incompetent, impotent fool,UNABLE TO DIE FOR ALL OF OUR SINS, future sins, as is God the Father, for even sending Him to die, as devil child Pate's "solution" to the sin/sins problem, is to eliminate the law that defines the sin/transgression, thus, "presto," there is no offense/transgression/sin for which to die, instead of the Saviour dying for our future sin debt. Do you all "get that," TOL audience? That, in simple terms, is this satanist "argument," breaking it down. Again, Pate asserts that the solution to the sin/sins issue, is not that the Saviour died for our sin debt in the future, which is contrary to us, for breaking the LORD God's perfect,good, holy,just, spiritual law, and a reflection of His character to both the saved and lost, and not that we are the problem, but the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not spiritual, as laws against murder, rape, lying, stealing......are all contrary to us, so, instead of the Saviour dying in our place, to satisfy the debt/IOU, abolish the law, so that there is no offense/transgression/sin for which He should die, and thus abolish the Saviour's work, as Pate asserts that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SINS, SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE, for our future sins/sin debt. Thus, Pate asserts he died in vain, for nothing, as his "solution" is to abolish/eliminate/destroy/make void the law, so that there is no future sin/transgression/offense, and associated/corresponding wage/sin debt to be paid for. Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.


    Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."




    Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.



    Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...

    Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



    Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.



    The "secular" example of Pate's "reasoning::



    Pate gets a speeding ticket. He goes to court, and, in front of the judge...



    Pate:Judge, I demand that you abolish/destroy the law against speeding. It is not a good law, because I/others cannot keep it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!This law is not for my benefit, or society's-it is contrary to/against me/society!!!!!!!!!! Abolish it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And, if you do not abolish it, it automatically condemns me, judges me, as guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





    The judge: No, the laws are good, and are for everyone's benefit, including yours. They are not against you, are not contrary to you, they are not against society, they are not contrary to society, -they stand. The problem is with you/others breaking these good laws, and the debt you/others must pay for these offenses(sins) you committed. That is what is contrary to/against you/others. Pay the fine. The law cannot condemn you, just because it is in place.



    Pate: No!!!!! Abolish the law!!!!!!!



    The judge: Either pay the fine, or go to jail-the law stands.



    Pate: No!!!!The laws are not good-they are the problem, not me!!!!





    Benevolent, gracious judge: Tell you what, Pate. Someone just paid your fine/debt/IOU(sin, offense, transgression) on your behalf. Justice is served. You are free to go(Christ died for our sins....paying the sin debt, IOU)



    Pate: No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That person need not have paid my fine/debt!!!!!(Christ need not die to pay the sin debt/IOU). The solution is to abolish, destroy, make void, the laws against speeding(fill in the blank), so that we will not have to "do" these laws, obey them, and the solution is not the fine being satisfied(Christ-propitiation)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    Benevolent, gracious judge: Lock up this man for dementia, contempt of court, lunacy-put him in a straight jacket.


    And now, in wickedness, attempt to delete Genesis-John. You will lose, demon:

    Matthew 24:35 KJV Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.



    1 Peter KJV
    25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Devil child Pate asserts, on record, that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt/IOU, paying our debt, in our place, as the solution, and, instead, asserts, on record, that this "Jesus" is an incompetent, impotent fool,UNABLE TO DIE FOR ALL OF OUR SINS, future sins, as is God the Father, for even sending Him to die, as devil child Pate's "solution" to the sin/sins problem, is to eliminate the law that defines the sin/transgression, thus, "presto," there is no offense/transgression/sin for which to die, instead of the Saviour dying for our future sin debt. Do you all "get that," TOL audience? That, in simple terms, is this satanist "argument," breaking it down. Again, Pate asserts that the solution to the sin/sins issue, is not that the Saviour died for our sin debt in the future, which is contrary to us, for breaking the LORD God's perfect,good, holy,just, spiritual law, and a reflection of His character to both the saved and lost, and not that we are the problem, but the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not spiritual, as laws against murder, rape, lying, stealing......are all contrary to us, so, instead of the Saviour dying in our place, to satisfy the debt/IOU, abolish the law, so that there is no offense/transgression/sin for which He should die, and thus abolish the Saviour's work, as Pate asserts that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SINS, SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE, for our future sins/sin debt. Thus, Pate asserts he died in vain, for nothing, as his "solution" is to abolish/eliminate/destroy/make void the law, so that there is no future sin/transgression/offense, and associated/corresponding wage/sin debt to be paid for. Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.


    Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."




    Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.



    Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...

    Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



    Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.



    The "secular" example of Pate's "reasoning::



    Pate gets a speeding ticket. He goes to court, and, in front of the judge...



    Pate:Judge, I demand that you abolish/destroy the law against speeding. It is not a good law, because I/others cannot keep it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!This law is not for my benefit, or society's-it is contrary to/against me/society!!!!!!!!!! Abolish it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And, if you do not abolish it, it automatically condemns me, judges me, as guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





    The judge: No, the laws are good, and are for everyone's benefit, including yours. They are not against you, are not contrary to you, they are not against society, they are not contrary to society, -they stand. The problem is with you/others breaking these good laws, and the debt you/others must pay for these offenses(sins) you committed. That is what is contrary to/against you/others. Pay the fine. The law cannot condemn you, just because it is in place.



    Pate: No!!!!! Abolish the law!!!!!!!



    The judge: Either pay the fine, or go to jail-the law stands.



    Pate: No!!!!The laws are not good-they are the problem, not me!!!!





    Benevolent, gracious judge: Tell you what, Pate. Someone just paid your fine/debt/IOU(sin, offense, transgression) on your behalf. Justice is served. You are free to go(Christ died for our sins....paying the sin debt, IOU)



    Pate: No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That person need not have paid my fine/debt!!!!!(Christ need not die to pay the sin debt/IOU). The solution is to abolish, destroy, make void, the laws against speeding(fill in the blank), so that we will not have to "do" these laws, obey them, and the solution is not the fine being satisfied(Christ-propitiation)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    Benevolent, gracious judge: Lock up this man for dementia, contempt of court, lunacy-put him in a straight jacket.


    And now, in wickedness, attempt to delete Genesis-John. You will lose, demon:

    Matthew 24:35 KJV Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.



    1 Peter KJV
    25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

    You have 0 understanding of the Gospel.

    When Jesus died on the cross all of humanity died with him, Romans 6:6. This is why Paul said, "I have been crucified with Christ" Galatians 2:20. The old Adamic humanity has been put to death in Jesus Christ. Not only did God put to death the whole sinful race in Jesus Christ, he also destroyed sin, death, the devil and abolished the law. All that have faith in Jesus and his Gospel are now new creations in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

    They have been reconciled to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19, And now stand complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

    There is no condemnation to those that are "In Christ" because God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ".

    This is why the righteous man does not need the law, 1 Timothy 1:9. He has already been justified, sanctified and redeemed by Jesus, 1 Corinthians 1:30, and now sits in heavenly places "In Jesus Christ" Ephesians 2:6

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You have 0 understanding of the Gospel.
    Made up, as you reject the gospel of Christ, demon, perverter, asserting, on record, that since their is no law of God, it does not exist, there is no corresponding sin debt, for which the Saviour could die,and thus, Christ did not die for our sin debt, according to your satanic argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    When Jesus died on the cross all of humanity died with him, Romans 6:6. This is why Paul said, "I have been crucified with Christ" Galatians 2:20. The old Adamic humanity has been put to death in Jesus Christ. Not only did God put to death the whole sinful race in Jesus Christ, he also destroyed sin, death, the devil and abolished the law. All that have faith in Jesus and his Gospel are now new creations in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

    They have been reconciled to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19, And now stand complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

    There is no condemnation to those that are "In Christ" because God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ".

    This is why the righteous man does not need the law, 1 Timothy 1:9. He has already been justified, sanctified and redeemed by Jesus, 1 Corinthians 1:30, and now sits in heavenly places "In Jesus Christ" Ephesians 2:6
    Quite irrelevant to your satanic argument that the OT, law, no longer exists, and your rejection that Christ died for our sins.

    Again, on record, Pate's "solution" to the sin problem, is not that Christ died for our past/future sins,the sin debt, but to eliminate the law of God, SO THAT THERE IS NO DEBT TO BE PAID FOR BREAKING THE LAW, SINCE IT DOES NOT EXIST.Thus, Christ did not die for our future sins also,according to Pate, since there is no law, that defines what sin/transgression was committed. No law, no transgression, and thus no need for Christ to die, to pay for our sin debt, since there is no sin debt, according to this demon Pate.,



    Devil child Pate asserts, on record, that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt/IOU, paying our debt, in our place, as the solution, and, instead, asserts, on record, that this "Jesus" is an incompetent, impotent fool,UNABLE TO DIE FOR ALL OF OUR SINS, future sins, as is God the Father, for even sending Him to die, as devil child Pate's "solution" to the sin/sins problem, is to eliminate the law that defines the sin/transgression, thus, "presto," there is no offense/transgression/sin for which to die, instead of the Saviour dying for our future sin debt. Do you all "get that," TOL audience? That, in simple terms, is this satanist "argument," breaking it down. Again, Pate asserts that the solution to the sin/sins issue, is not that the Saviour died for our sin debt in the future, which is contrary to us, for breaking the LORD God's perfect,good, holy,just, spiritual law, and a reflection of His character to both the saved and lost, and not that we are the problem, but the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not spiritual, as laws against murder, rape, lying, stealing......are all contrary to us, so, instead of the Saviour dying in our place, to satisfy the debt/IOU, abolish the law, so that there is no offense/transgression/sin for which He should die, and thus abolish the Saviour's work, as Pate asserts that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SINS, SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE, for our future sins/sin debt. Thus, Pate asserts he died in vain, for nothing, as his "solution" is to abolish/eliminate/destroy/make void the law, so that there is no future sin/transgression/offense, and associated/corresponding wage/sin debt to be paid for.

    Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.


    Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."


    Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.



    Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...

    Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



    Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.
    Saint John W

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    I never did say that the law was bad. The law is good because it reveals the nature and the character of God. We know that God is light and that there is no darkness in him. All that God does is Just, merciful and righteous. Jesus was the epitome of God's law incarnate in human flesh.

    The law demands perfection. We don't have it to offer. The law is one entity, it is not just a bunch of commandments. This is why James said, "If you fail in one point of the law, you have failed the whole thing" James 2:10.

    The only thing that comes by the law is judgment and condemnation. Christians are not under it, nor are they subject to it, Romans 8:1.

    "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith (hearing and believing the Gospel" Galatians 3:2.

    The law has been replaced by faith and the Holy Spirit for the Christian.
    Last edited by Sherman; April 16th, 2018 at 08:55 AM. Reason: Stupid childish remark removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I never did say that the law was bad. The law is good because it reveals the nature and the character of God. We know that God is light and that there is no darkness in him. All that God does is Just, merciful and righteous. Jesus was the epitome of God's law incarnate in human flesh.

    The law demands perfection. We don't have it to offer. The law is one entity, it is not just a bunch of commandments. This is why James said, "If you fail in one point of the law, you have failed the whole thing" James 2:10.

    The only thing that comes by the law is judgment and condemnation. Christians are not under it, nor are they subject to it, Romans 8:1.

    "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith (hearing and believing the Gospel" Galatians 3:2.

    The law has been replaced by faith and the Holy Spirit for the Christian.
    “The law has been replaced by faith and the Holy Spirit for the Christian.”

    And thus for you, those with faith and Holy Spirit are lawless...no different than the rest of the world or their former selves...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    “The law has been replaced by faith and the Holy Spirit for the Christian.”

    And thus for you, those with faith and Holy Spirit are lawless...no different than the rest of the world or their former selves...

    No one that is indwelt with the Holy Spirit is lawless. Were the apostles lawless?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    No one that is indwelt with the Holy Spirit is lawless. Were the apostles lawless?
    According to you the apostles were lawless as you insist the Law was abolished...

    Paul however is clear “WE ESTABLISH LAW”...except you...you establish lawlessness...

    WIthout the Law the Spirit has no standard by which to guide you...

    No way to tell one who is indewlt with the Holy Spirit from one who is not...anything goes...it doesnt matter...do what thou whilst...is what you claim and maintain...

    You are not alone...most Christians claim the same...that the Law was abolished at the cross...GRACE ALONE...FAITH ALONE...they insist...you (as they) maintain what jews falslely accused Stephen and Paul of...that jewish lie that Stephen and Paul taught the Law was abolished...

    You too, are a false witness...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    According to you the apostles were lawless as you insist the Law was abolished...

    Paul however is clear “WE ESTABLISH LAW”...except you...you establish lawlessness...

    WIthout the Law the Spirit has no standard by which to guide you...

    No way to tell one who is indewlt with the Holy Spirit from one who is not...anything goes...it doesnt matter...do what thou whilst...is what you claim and maintain...

    You are not alone...most Christians claim the same...that the Law was abolished at the cross...GRACE ALONE...FAITH ALONE...they insist...you (as they) maintain what jews falslely accused Stephen and Paul of...that jewish lie that Stephen and Paul taught the Law was abolished...

    You too, are a false witness...

    If you live by the law, you will be judged by the law and condemned.

    We establish the law by being "In Christ". God can find no sin in the man that is "In Christ".

    No one can be saved if the law has not been abolished.

    "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

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