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Thread: Righteousness by Faith / Not by Rules, Laws or Religion

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    Righteousness by Faith / Not by Rules, Laws or Religion

    "But to him that does NO WORKS, but believes on him that justifies the UNGODLY, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

    In the New Testament faith in Christ and his Gospel count for righteousness. Not works, obedience or religion.

    "For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness" Romans 4:3.

    What was it that Abraham believed? Abraham believed in God's promise of a savior and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

    This doctrine is very offensive to people that are religious. The religious want to do something so that they can earn their salvation. In the New Testament works, laws and religion count for nothing. This is why Paul wrote, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17.And not by laws, rules and religion.

    The purpose of the law in the New Testament is not to justify or save. The purpose is to convict people of their sins and bring them to Christ, Galatians 3:23-25.

    "But after faith is come we are no longer under the schoolmaster (the law) For we are all Children of God by faith in Christ Jesus" Galatians 3:26.

    There is no longer any purpose for the law for the born again Christian. The Christian is not obligated to do or to keep the law. The New Testament Christian lives by faith and by the Holy Spirit, John 16:13, this is why the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15 also Colossians 2:14.

    What is this faith that justifies the ungodly? As we have seen it is not faith in our ability to keep or do the law. It is faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ. We who are saved are not trying to become holy by the works of the law or by religion, "For by the law no flesh will be justified in his sight" Romans 3:20. We are resting in the work that Jesus has already done that reconciled us and the world to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. We believe that we are complete in him (Jesus) Colossians 2:10.

    Righteousness is not something that we must obtain. righteousness like salvation is a free gift from God, We receive it when we receive Christ as our savior. In the judgment it is going to be the only righteousness that God will accept.

    "And be found in him, not having my own righteousness that is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" Philippians 3:9.

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    Abraham Had To Prove His Faith With Works

    Acts 26:20
    20 "but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
    John 8:39
    39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.
    James 2:17-18
    17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
    18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
    James 2:20-22
    20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
    22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
    James 2:24
    24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
    James 2:26
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    James 2:17-18
    17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
    18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
    James 2:20-22
    20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
    22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
    James 2:24
    24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
    James 2:26
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    John 14:10-12
    10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
    11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
    12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
    (NKJ)
    XXX Even Abraham had to prove his faith with works. Because faith without works is dead faith.

    [Heb 11:17 KJV] 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],
    [Heb 11:17 NKJV] 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    Abraham Had To Prove His Faith With Works

    Acts 26:20
    20 "but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
    John 8:39
    39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.
    James 2:17-18
    17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
    18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
    James 2:20-22
    20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
    22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
    James 2:24
    24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
    James 2:26
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    James 2:17-18
    17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
    18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
    James 2:20-22
    20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
    22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
    James 2:24
    24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
    James 2:26
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    John 14:10-12
    10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
    11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
    12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
    (NKJ)
    XXX Even Abraham had to prove his faith with works. Because faith without works is dead faith.

    [Heb 11:17 KJV] 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],
    [Heb 11:17 NKJV] 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],

    Works do not produce faith. Works count for nothing. Faith being mixed with the Holy Spirit is what produces good works and the Christian life, Ephesians 2:10.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The purpose of the law in the New Testament is not to justify or save. The purpose is to convict people of their sins and bring them to Christ, Galatians 3:23-25.
    The law was added to the Sinaitic covenant because of Israel's sin.

    "What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made." (Galatians 3:19)

    The Seed has come and the law is not applicable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    The law was added to the Sinaitic covenant because of Israel's sin.

    "What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made." (Galatians 3:19)

    The Seed has come and the law is not applicable.

    Jesus abolished the law and replaced it with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit came into the world on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:1-13.

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    Here are some verses from a search for righteousness faith

    Romans 4:11 KJV - And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
    Romans 4:13 KJV - For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
    Romans 9:30 KJV - What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
    Philippians 3:9 KJV - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Jesus abolished the law and replaced it with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit came into the world on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:1-13.
    "But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit;
    So He turned Himself against them as an enemy,
    And He fought against them." (Isaiah 63:10)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    "But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit;
    So He turned Himself against them as an enemy,
    And He fought against them." (Isaiah 63:10)
    What, Jamie? No, no, no-don't you know? According to Pate, you cannot use Old Testament scripture, such as Isiah 63:10 KJV, which you quote, to make your point-it was abolished, destroyed, and no longer exists, according to devil child Pate!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished....the Old Testament is now nothing but history...
    Pate told Paul that also!!!!!:


    http://www.freewebs.com/thywordis/PA...20THE%20OT.htm



    This is why Pate, on record, also asserts that these scriptures were also abolished, and cannot be used, to make a point:


    Matthew 5:17 KJV Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    Psalms 111 KJV

    7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.

    8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.



    John 5:39 KJV Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


    Pate: To h with you, God-I will attempt to delete 3/4 of scriptures, to prevent this "Jesus" from being known!!


    Romans 3:21 KJV
    21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    Pate: To h with you, God-I will attempt to delete 3/4 of scriptures, including the law, since it testifies to the righteousness of God without the law, and I need to prevent this teaching, on orders from my daddy the devil.And you cannot use Old Testament scripture to make your point-it no longer exists!!!!!



    Luke 24:44 KJV And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.


    Pate: To h with you, God-I will attempt to delete 3/4 of scriptures, to prevent this "Jesus" from being known!!And you cannot use Old Testament scripture, "which were written in the law of Moses," to make your point-it no longer exists!!!!!



    Psalm 40:7 KJV Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

    Hebrews 10:7 KJV Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

    Pate: To h with you, God-I will attempt to delete 3/4 of scriptures, to prevent this "Jesus" from being known!!And you cannot use Old Testament scripture to make your point-it no longer exists!!!!!




    1 Corinthians 10 KJV

    11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.


    Pate: No, no, no, Paul!!!!You cannot use Old Testament scripture to make your point-it no longer exists!!!!!



    Romans 15 KJV


    4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

    Pate: No, no, no, Paul!!!!You cannot use Old Testament scripture, those things that "were written aforetime," "for our learning," so that we might have "hope," to make your point-Old Testament scripture, those things written aforetime, no longer exists!!!!!

    Again, Paul-according to Pope Pate, you are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished, Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!.And no, Paul, the things that happened to others in the Old Testament for examples, for our admonition, and those things written for our learning in the Old Testament, to teach us patience, and provide us hope, do not!!!!!!!!!They no longer exists, as the Old Testament scriptures have been abolished!!!!!
    Saint John W

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    jamie (April 4th, 2018)

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    Over 3000 post club beameup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    "What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made." (Galatians 3:19)
    The Seed has come and the law is not applicable.
    For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Romans 10:4
    Christ's righteousness is transferred to you when you believe, making you sinless in God's eyes.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to beameup For Your Post:

    Robert Pate (April 4th, 2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Jesus abolished the law and replaced it with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit came into the world on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:1-13.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Jesus abolished the law and replaced it with the Holy Spirit.The Holy Spirit is the Christian's teacher.

    Someone/anyone, to Pate: The Holy Spirit replaced the law, which no longer exists, which you taught us, and He teaches me that suicide bombings, and blowing up abortion clinics are just fine.


    Pate:



    Not a peep, from this demon. I've challenged him on this for months, and he punts, side steps it, posts irrelevant slop, changes the subject, subtly(Genesis 3:1 KJV), craftily, on orders from his serpent daddy, dismisses it.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    There is no longer any purpose for the law for the born again Christian. The Christian is not obligated to do or to keep the law. The New Testament Christian lives by faith and by the Holy Spirit, John 16:13, this is why the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15 also Colossians 2:14.
    Tell all of TOL, Pope Pate, if, for eg., stealing, murder is a sin,for "the born again Christian." If it is, why? If it is not, tell us why not.


    Tell all of TOL, Pope Pate, if, for eg., stealing, murder is a sin,for the lost. If it is, why? If it is not, tell us why not.

    Let's go, Pate. You made the "argument." Explain it, w/o just posting verses, in isolation, w/o expounding on their meaning.


    Watch, again, the evasion, the changing of the subject, side stepping, sound bytes, misdirection toward me, with perhaps another racial slur......w/o addressing my questions, based upon his premise in this thread, and all the other "the law no longer exists, the OT no longer exists" duplicate threads he spams.


    Go ahead, Pate. Address my questions.


    You won't-he has punted for 2 months.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Romans 10:4

    Christ's righteousness is transferred to you when you believe, making you sinless in God's eyes.
    Yes, and the end of the commandment is love.

    "Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned." (1 Timothy 1:5 KJV)

    Same thing, different words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Yes, and the end of the commandment is love.

    "Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned." (1 Timothy 1:5 KJV)

    Same thing, different words.
    The Greek word telos, translated “end” in Romans 10:4, can convey variations in meaning, including “ ‘the aim or purpose’ of a thing” ( Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1985, “End, Ending”). This is very clear in the New King James Version’s rendering of 1 Timothy 1:5, where telos is properly translated as purpose in the clause “the purpose of the commandment is love.” In this same verse the NRSV translates telos as “aim” and the NIV renders it as “goal.”

    Paul uses telos in Romans 10:4 to convey that the objective or goal of the law—the “aim or purpose” of it—is to point us to the mind and character of Jesus Christ (Galatians 4:19; Philippians 2:5).

    https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tool...n-by-christ-is

    Posted over and over again...but always avoided ignored rejected...end is “goal” not abolished changed...that it is ended is false witness which jews started in Acts...


    And His people love not the love of the world and not as the pagans love...

    Our love is different peculiar set aside circumcised...

    ...a Love modeled and instructed by Him so as to DO as He did...Love as He Loved

    This Love includes certain behaviors and acts and forfeits others...it’s just not the love of the world its ways...is why the world HATES those that pick up their cross and FOLLOW HIM...HIS WAY
    Last edited by clefty; April 4th, 2018 at 03:47 PM.

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    Again...
    Romans 10:4 KJV-in context..

    The very design of the law, is to to bring men/women, to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, for justification and salvation, as He alone gives that forgiveness/pardon, and resurrected life which the law shows the want of, but cannot provide. The Lord Jesus Christ is the "end game," so to speak, the culmination of God's holy law, in the sense that it has pointed to him, as the school master, and has been finalized/realized in him. God's holy law has not ceased to have a necessary function, nor has it ceased to have any value, nor is it void. Survey Romans 7.......

    12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

    The Lord Jesus Christ has not abolished/destroyed the law....

    Matthew 5 KJV
    17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    ......but the LORD God, through His Christ, has replaced it as the standard for righteousness, with His Christ. In this sense he has culminated the law as the "end game"/focal point of the purpose of God's holy law-Christ is the end game of the law.

    But the book, in no way, asserts that God's holy law is destroyed/does not exist, or is "abolished."

    The Lord Jesus Christ, being the "it is finished," is the holy law's goal, its climax, its inevitable outcome. Coming to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and what He did, is thus the resultant "end", the goal, with Him being the consummation to whom the holy law of God points.

    Again, Paul does not say, or even imply, that the Lord Jesus Christ abolished/terminated the validity, function, and relevance of God's holy law. The purpose of this law, and most of "the volume of the book,"is to point us to our innate human need for a Savior, to "get us out" of our dire predicament, and realize that the law is now no longer our slave driver, as we came to Christ, and we are no longer under its jurisdiction, as pertaining to the penalty of sin(salvation), or the power of sin(sanctification), nor is it our "source for our "walk"-he is our "end."

    Romans 3 KJV

    31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


    Christians are instructed by the LORD God, through Paul, to use the existing law as a witness to the righteousness of God without the law, and "tie" prophecy, and its fulfillment, to the Lord Jesus Christ:


    Romans 3:21 KJV But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested,being witnessed by the law and the prophets;



    Luke 24:44 KJV And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
    Last edited by john w; April 4th, 2018 at 03:54 PM.
    Saint John W

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