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Thread: Isn't it reasonable to doubt Young Earth Creationism?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    True.... Likewise, old earth beliefs can be debunked if you prove the universe is young.
    Agreed.

    You have that backwards. Theistic beliefs about an old earth reject what Scripture plainly says. Old earth beliefs destroy the purpose of the Calvary. If death, pain, suffering, thorns etc existed before man sinned... then why did Jesus go to the cross?
    I have to admit, the above seems incoherent to me. I cannot say why Jesus went to the cross.

    Maybe it was to demonstrate what true forbearance and love of one's enemies looked like. (???) IDK. You're the expert.

    I claim no knowledge concerning the intentions of omnipotent cosmic beings, nor has it been demonstrated to me that any book discloses such information.

    You state you are an unbeliever, so iow you must start off with a whole set of assumptions. Did nothing create that light?... Was there a cause that existed eternally?..... Was the speed of light trillions of times faster in the past like some secular astronomers believe?
    I try to assume as little as possible. I don't know if "nothing created the light" so I make no assumption one way or the other. Maybe some uncaused cause exists beyond space and time. Again, I don't know these things. What lies beyond space and time is not my area of expertise. You might want to ask others on the forum. They seem to know all about it.

    I remember reading an article a while back that discussed theories of a changing speed of light. I will make it a point to follow your link and read what it has to say in the near future. I think the consensus among scientists is that it appears constant throughout time; at least, this is what most have concluded after examining the evidence.

    Old earth/ universe is a belief system (as is young earth). Both belief systems interpret evidence to fit priori biases. But... Young earth beliefs fit the evidence best... of course :-)
    "There are no facts, only interpretations"
    --Friedrich Nietzsche

    I'm a fan of Nietzsche's work, but I gotta say-- I think he's wrong on this one. I think there are such things as facts. And they can be either understood or misinterpreted. The only way to know for sure is to periodically step back and assess your own beliefs objectively, correcting any mistakes or inaccuracies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    Old earth beliefs destroy the purpose of the Calvary. If death, pain, suffering, thorns etc existed before man sinned... then why did Jesus go to the cross?
    Politics.

    You state you are an unbeliever, so iow you must start off with a whole set of assumptions. Did nothing create that light?... Was there a cause that existed eternally?..... Was the speed of light trillions of times faster in the past like some secular astronomers believe? https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/w...f-the-universe
    You should explain how the work described in this article could possibly give a young earth, one less than 10,000 years old, as you appear to believe.

    If you can't do that, then I think you should apologise to the good people here for attempting to mislead them, especially your loyal camp follower JudgeRightly.

    Stuart

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Scripture says the earth was inhabited before Adam and Eve.

    Humans have existed for about six thousand years.

    Angelic beings have existed long before humans. How long we don't know.

    "And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode" (Jude 1:6)

    The earth was their proper domain.

    Satan said he would ascend above the clouds, meaning he was below the clouds. (Isaiah 14:14)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Humans have existed for about six thousand years.
    200,000 years.

    Stuart

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie
    Scripture says the earth was inhabited before Adam and Eve.
    No... Scripture actually says that in six days God created the heavens and the earth and everything in them. Jesus taught that humans were from the beginning of creation.


    The belief in inhabitants existing before Adam and Eve is heretical in that it destroys the purpose of Christ's physical death and resurrection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuu View Post
    You should explain how the work ddescribed in this article could possibly give a young earth, one less than 10,000 years old, as you appear to believe.
    The secular astronomers BELIEVE the universe is billions of years old but recognize the speed of light may have been trillions of times faster in the past.
    We don't know how fast God spread the universe but Adam was able to see the stars just a couple days after they were created. (Perhaps God spread stars to the distant universe trillions of times faster than the speed of light)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan Logician
    I try to assume as little as possible. I don't know if "nothing created the light" so I make no assumption one way or the other.
    Logic and science should indicate to you that nothing can't cause anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan Logician

    Maybe some uncaused cause exists beyond space and time.
    That seems the only logical conclusion. Once you accept is logical, then you can look for evidence that the cause is omniscient and omnipotent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan Logician

    I think the consensus among scientists is that it appears constant throughout time; at least, this is what most have concluded after examining the evidence.
    Fortunately science/ truth is not determined by majority opinion. There are many evidences against an old universe. (Eg. 'Mature' galaxies in the distant 'young' universe). Also there are evidences the speed of light was faster in the past. For example the light horizon problem. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_problem

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    The secular astronomers BELIEVE the universe is billions of years old but recognize the speed of light may have been trillions of times faster in the past.
    We don't know how fast God spread the universe but Adam was able to see the stars just a couple days after they were created. (Perhaps God spread stars to the distant universe trillions of times faster than the speed of light)
    I see you can't explain how your cited article can result in a young earth.

    You have a strange way of withdrawing your attempt at deception.

    Stuart

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuu View Post
    I see you can't explain how your cited article can result in a young earth.

    You have a strange way of withdrawing your attempt at deception.

    Stuart
    I think you missed something... Logician suggested that someone show how light might have arrived at earth faster than it was supposed to. Neither you nor I know how God created and spread the stars. This is what I answered to Logician.
    Did nothing create that light?... Was there a cause that existed eternally?..... Was the speed of light trillions of times faster in the past like some secular astronomers believe? https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/w...f-the-universe

    Old earth/ universe is a belief system (as is young earth). Both belief systems interpret evidence to fit priori biases. But... Young earth beliefs fit the evidence best... of course :-
    )
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    I think you missed something... Logician suggested that someone show how light might have arrived at earth faster than it was supposed to.
    What do you mean 'supposed to'? It's your dishonest deception, because you interjected in an exchange during which your camp follower JudgeRightly had specifically discussed a young earth at 6,000-10,000 years old.
    Neither you nor I know how God created and spread the stars.
    What god? What spread? These things don't even exist, so I'm not surprised you fail to explain them every time.
    This is what I answered to Logician.
    Did nothing create that light?... Was there a cause that existed eternally?..... Was the speed of light trillions of times faster in the past like some secular astronomers believe? https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/w...f-the-universe
    Old earth/ universe is a belief system (as is young earth). Both belief systems interpret evidence to fit priori biases. But... Young earth beliefs fit the evidence best... of course :-)
    The earth is 4.54 billion years old. That is what all of the evidence says, with none contradicting it. In all this bullish nonsense you post you have never once provided a single fact that disproves 4.54 billion years. Not one.

    You have also never established the existence of this thing you call a god. That is the belief system with no unambiguous evidence in its favour.

    Stuart

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    Also there are evidences the speed of light was faster in the past. For example the light horizon problem. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_problem
    Just as before, you cherry pick from your own sources. As the Wiki article explains, the horizon problem is resolved via cosmic inflation. And some of the expectations of cosmic inflation have been realized via COBE and WMAP.

    But of course you reject that out of hand because, just like before, you're evaluating everything through.....

    By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record

    .....an anti-scientific framework that you described as true and good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Fly View Post
    As the Wiki article explains, the horizon problem is resolved via cosmic inflation.
    Like before, you rely on hypothetical potential resolutions to support your house of cards. Explaining away the evidence is not science.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuu View Post
    The earth is 4.54 billion years old. That is what all of the evidence says, with none contradicting it.
    You are SILLY. Your belief system attempts to interpret evidence in a way that fits your beliefs. The evidence as you know, doesn't actually say anything. (Evidence ALWAYS needs to be interpreted). Stuu... your interpretation often involves trying to explain away the most obvious interpretation. Dark energy, Oort clods, inflation trillions of times faster than speed of light, dark matter, multiverse, cold whoosh, big crunch, singularity, plasma universe... and on and on are attempts by secularists to deny that we live in a young... created universe.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    You are SILLY. Your belief system attempts to interpret evidence in a way that fits your beliefs. The evidence as you know, doesn't actually say anything. (Evidence ALWAYS needs to be interpreted). Stuu... your interpretation often involves trying to explain away the most obvious interpretation.
    Not one single piece of evidence that contradicts a 4.54 billion year old earth.

    Dark energy, Oort clods, inflation trillions of times faster than speed of light, dark matter, multiverse, cold whoosh, big crunch, singularity, plasma universe... and on and on are attempts by secularists to deny that we live in a young... created universe.
    Not one single piece of evidence that contradicts a 4.54 billion year old earth.

    By the way, what is an Oort Clod?

    Stuart

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuu View Post
    Not one single piece of evidence that contradicts a 4.54 billion year old earth.


    Not one single piece of evidence that contradicts a 4.54 billion year old earth.

    By the way, what is an Oort Clod?

    Stuart
    Here's a piece of evidence that contradicts a 4.54 billion year old earth.

    http://kgov.com/carbon-14-and-dinosaur-bones

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