User Tag List

Page 5 of 32 FirstFirst ... 234567815 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 471

Thread: 2 Cor 4.4 (Jesus, The God of this age!)

  1. #61
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    On a sea of glass mixed with fire in front of a throne.
    Posts
    10,120
    Thanks
    1,794
    Thanked 1,774 Times in 1,299 Posts

    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    523681
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    How does Satan blind the minds of people to the gospel?:

    "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (2 Cor.11:14-15).

    Satan's ministers, wittingly or unwittingly, preach a counterfeit gospel of grace that declares that "works" of one kind or another are necessary in order for anyone to be saved by grace. And therefore many never hear the true gospel which saves and are never saved.
    Something like this?

    1 Kings 22:21-23
    21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.
    22 And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
    23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to genuineoriginal For Your Post:

    glorydaz (March 21st, 2018)

  3. #62
    Over 2000 post club way 2 go's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,195
    Thanks
    2,113
    Thanked 1,433 Times in 813 Posts

    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    416310
    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    Satan was bound at The Cross...added proof that 2 Cor 4.4 does not pertain to Satan.
    not bound yet , in the future the satan will be bound...

    Rev 20:2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,


    God is eternal not limited to this age or "the god of this age" that would be satan

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to way 2 go For Your Post:

    glorydaz (March 21st, 2018)

  5. #63
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    25,588
    Thanks
    16,942
    Thanked 40,135 Times in 20,063 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    114 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147830
    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    Satan was bound at The Cross...added proof that 2 Cor 4.4 does not pertain to Satan.
    Well, there is this, which clearly shows Jesus triumphed over His enemies. And He did say, "It is finished."

    Col. 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

    What do you say about this "age" in Youngs?

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    Apple7 (March 21st, 2018),Tambora (March 25th, 2018)

  7. #64
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    25,588
    Thanks
    16,942
    Thanked 40,135 Times in 20,063 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    114 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147830
    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    not bound yet , in the future the satan will be bound...

    Rev 20:2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,


    God is eternal not limited to this age or "the god of this age" that would be satan
    But Satan wasn't limited to this age, either, was he?

    And look here....Young's uses the same thing about this "age" in these verses.

    Romans 12:2 and be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for your proving what [is] the will of God -- the good, and acceptable, and perfect.

    1 Corinthians 1:20 where [is] the wise? where the scribe? where a disputer of this age? did not God make foolish the wisdom of this world?

    2 Corinthians 4:4 in whom the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God;

    The question should be, does satan have the power to blind people. It's clear God does, and did with the Jews as spoken by the Prophets....and with the parables.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    Tambora (March 25th, 2018),way 2 go (March 21st, 2018)

  9. #65
    Over 3000 post club Apple7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,490
    Thanks
    430
    Thanked 1,260 Times in 855 Posts

    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    158699
    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    not bound yet , in the future the satan will be bound...

    Rev 20:2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,


    God is eternal not limited to this age or "the god of this age" that would be satan

    The verbs employed in Rev 20, are in the aorist, completed action.

    Its a done deal.

    The Dragon, The Old Serpent, The Devil, Satan was bound ‘edēsen’ (completed action), cast into the abyss ‘ebalen’ (completed action), shut ‘ekleisen’ (completed action), and sealed ‘esphragisen’ (completed action), that he can no longer deceive people‘planēsē’(singular, completed action), by Jesus. Rev 20.1 – 3


    Too many people use Rev 20 as their premise for eschatology...of which, results in serious errors...

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Apple7 For Your Post:

    glorydaz (March 21st, 2018)

  11. #66
    Over 3000 post club Apple7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,490
    Thanks
    430
    Thanked 1,260 Times in 855 Posts

    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    158699
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Well, there is this, which clearly shows Jesus triumphed over His enemies. And He did say, "It is finished."

    Col. 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

    What do you say about this "age" in Youngs?

    Nice passage...


    Col 2.13 – 15

    και υμας νεκρους οντας τοις παραπτωμασιν και τη ακροβυστια της σαρκος υμων συνεζωοποιησεν υμας συν αυτω χαρισαμενος ημιν παντα τα παραπτωματα εξαλειψας το καθ ημων χειρογραφον τοις δογμασιν ο ην υπεναντιον ημιν και αυτο ηρκεν εκ του μεσου προσηλωσας αυτο τω σταυρω απεκδυσαμενος τας αρχας και τας εξουσιας εδειγματισεν εν παρρησια θριαμβευσας αυτους εν αυτω

    kai hymas nekrous ontas en tois paraptōmasin kai tē akrobystia tēs sarkos hymōn synezōopoiēsen hymas syn auto charisamenos hemin panta ta paraptōmata exaleipsas to kath' hēmōn cheirographon tois dogmasin ho ēn hypenantion hemin kai auto ērken ek tou mesou prosēlōsas auto tō staurō apekdysamenos tas archas kai tas exousias edeigmatisen en parrēsia thriambeusas autos en autō

    And you, being dead in the transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the transgressions, having blotted out the handwritten bond in the decrees against us, which was an adversary to us, and He has taken him out of the way, having nailed him to The Cross; having stripped of authority the rulers and the powers, He made a show of them in public, triumphing over them in Him.

    Here is the rational for this passage pertaining to Satan:

    • The closest preceding nominative (subject) word to ‘He has taken him out of the way’ is the word ‘hypenantion’, rendered as ‘adversary’.
    • ‘Adversary’ is singular.
    • The only other inflection of this word, in the entire NT, is in the plural term ‘hypenantious’ and is used in Heb 10.27 in the context of a fiery judgment for the ‘adversaries’.
    • Clearly, the singular ‘hypenantion’ is Satan; and the plural ‘adversaries’ are the demons.
    • The singular neuter personal pronoun ‘auto’ which follows it, can, and does, apply to ‘him’.
    • Juxtaposed to this is the conquering of evil in in the statements of disarming ‘the rulers and the powers’, which are evil spirits.
    • This public display, at The Cross, is referred to using the term ‘thriambeusas’, triumphing, which carries the meaning, ‘I lead one as my prisoner in a triumphant procession’.
    • Clearly, and unmistakably, the reader is informed that Satan was bound as a prisoner at The Cross.


    I've been meaning to start a thread on the binding of Satan....but, I wanted to use a poll feature....and that costs $ on this forum last I looked...

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Apple7 For Your Post:

    glorydaz (March 21st, 2018)

  13. #67
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    25,588
    Thanks
    16,942
    Thanked 40,135 Times in 20,063 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    114 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147830
    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    The verbs employed in Rev 20, are in the aorist, completed action.

    Its a done deal.

    The Dragon, The Old Serpent, The Devil, Satan was bound ‘edēsen’ (completed action), cast into the abyss ‘ebalen’ (completed action), shut ‘ekleisen’ (completed action), and sealed ‘esphragisen’ (completed action), that he can no longer deceive people‘planēsē’(singular, completed action), by Jesus. Rev 20.1 – 3


    Too many people use Rev 20 as their premise for eschatology...of which, results in serious errors...
    And yet satan still deceives people today, else why do we still battle against principalities and powers in high places?

    Death has been defeated, too, but we still see it taking place.

    This seems like a case of God calling things as though they were already finished.

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    Tambora (March 25th, 2018),way 2 go (March 21st, 2018)

  15. #68
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    25,588
    Thanks
    16,942
    Thanked 40,135 Times in 20,063 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    114 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147830
    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    I've been meaning to start a thread on the binding of Satan....but, I wanted to use a poll feature....and that costs $ on this forum last I looked...
    You should find out....or just start a thread.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    patrick jane (March 22nd, 2018),Tambora (March 25th, 2018)

  17. #69
    Over 2000 post club way 2 go's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,195
    Thanks
    2,113
    Thanked 1,433 Times in 813 Posts

    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    416310
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    But Satan wasn't limited to this age, either, was he?
    satan is limited to this age it is all he has left

    Rev 12:12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”

    And look here....Young's uses the same thing about this "age" in these verses.
    Romans 12:2 and be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for your proving what [is] the will of God -- the good, and acceptable, and perfect.

    1 Corinthians 1:20 where [is] the wise? where the scribe? where a disputer of this age? did not God make foolish the wisdom of this world?

    if "this age" was of God then he would want you to conform to "this age"

    2 Corinthians 4:4 in whom the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God;

    The question should be, does satan have the power to blind people. It's clear God does, and did with the Jews as spoken by the Prophets....and with the parables.
    we have unbelievers being blinded , does not take much to blind somebody
    who does not want to see, example : evolution is a lie that smells like smoke but people want to believe it.

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to way 2 go For Your Post:

    glorydaz (March 21st, 2018)

  19. #70
    Over 3000 post club Apple7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,490
    Thanks
    430
    Thanked 1,260 Times in 855 Posts

    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    158699
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    And yet satan still deceives people today, else why do we still battle against principalities and powers in high places?

    Death has been defeated, too, but we still see it taking place.

    This seems like a case of God calling things as though they were already finished.

    For the longest, I just assumed that the evil in the world was because Satan was directly part of it...but, he is not (thankfully!)....but his demons are still roaming free, of which, if there are circa 200,000,000 of them as declared in Rev (perhaps not literal but a huge number non the less)...then that would explain it.

    Also...we have passages such as this that back it up...

    Eph 6.11 - 16

    Put on all the armor of God, for you to be able to stand against the deceit of the Devil, because fighting against flesh and blood is not to us, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of the darkness of this age, against the spiritual powers of evil in the heavenly realms. Because of this, take up all of the armor of God that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having worked out all things, to stand. Then stand firm, "having girded your loins about with Truth" and having put "on the breastplate of righteousness," Isa. 11:5; 59:17 and having shod the feet with the preparation of the "gospel of peace." Isa. 52:7 Above all, taking up the shield of faith, with which you will be able to quench all the darts of the evil one being kindled.



    The reader is informed that a spiritual battle is going on….NOT between us and The Devil (because he is presently bound), but against the deceit (plural ‘methodeia’) of The Devil.

    If this battle was against Satan, himself, then the text would have plainly said so, on a singular basis. Instead, the plural deceit is listed out in plural fashion demonstrating the demonic forces which are roaming free.

    This passage ends with the way it started – reiterating that we are NOT in battle with Satan, himself, but the darts (plural ‘belē’), demons, that he is launching at us.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Apple7 For Your Post:

    glorydaz (March 21st, 2018)

  21. #71
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    25,588
    Thanks
    16,942
    Thanked 40,135 Times in 20,063 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    114 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147830
    Also, where does it say that being "bound" means unable to do anything? It could simply mean there are boundaries past which satan cannot go. I think a study of the strong man has some clues about this. I can remember studying this years ago...


    Luke 11:20-22 KJV
    20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. 21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: 22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.

    And something I just noticed today....verse 16 here.

    Acts 3:15-16
    15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
    16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

  22. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    patrick jane (March 22nd, 2018),Tambora (March 25th, 2018)

  23. #72
    Over 2000 post club way 2 go's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,195
    Thanks
    2,113
    Thanked 1,433 Times in 813 Posts

    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    416310
    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    The verbs employed in Rev 20, are in the aorist, completed action.

    Its a done deal.

    The Dragon, The Old Serpent, The Devil, Satan was bound ‘edēsen’ (completed action), cast into the abyss ‘ebalen’ (completed action), shut ‘ekleisen’ (completed action), and sealed ‘esphragisen’ (completed action), that he can no longer deceive people‘planēsē’(singular, completed action), by Jesus. Rev 20.1 – 3


    Too many people use Rev 20 as their premise for eschatology...of which, results in serious errors...
    john told us what he SAW in his vision of the FUTURE .

    Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
    Rev 1:2 who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to way 2 go For Your Post:

    glorydaz (March 22nd, 2018)

  25. #73
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    25,588
    Thanks
    16,942
    Thanked 40,135 Times in 20,063 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    114 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147830
    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    john told us what he SAW in his vision of the FUTURE .

    Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
    Rev 1:2 who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
    I don't think Revelation is in chronological order or even all in the future, because of verses like this....

    Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

  26. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    patrick jane (March 22nd, 2018),Tambora (March 25th, 2018)

  27. #74
    Over 2000 post club way 2 go's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,195
    Thanks
    2,113
    Thanked 1,433 Times in 813 Posts

    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    416310
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I don't think Revelation is in chronological order or even all in the future, because of verses like this....
    Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
    this is future.

    Rev 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
    Rev 19:21 And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.
    Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain.
    Rev 20:2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
    Rev 20:3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.


    in the meantime.

    1Pe_5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to way 2 go For Your Post:

    glorydaz (March 22nd, 2018)

  29. #75
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    25,588
    Thanks
    16,942
    Thanked 40,135 Times in 20,063 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    114 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147830
    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    this is future.

    Rev 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
    Rev 19:21 And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.
    Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain.
    Rev 20:2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
    Rev 20:3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.


    in the meantime.

    1Pe_5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
    Yes, "seeking whom he MAY devour:" He needs permission.

    But, I ask you to look at this, and see what you think. I find it very interesting.

    2 Thess. 2:3-12 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    Do you think it's the Body of Christ or the Holy Spirit that is "withholding" at this time? And notice how satan has more power then than he does now. I'm still of the opinion that being "bound" can mean more that just being totally without power.

  30. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    patrick jane (March 22nd, 2018),Tambora (March 25th, 2018)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us