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Thread: Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

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    Over 1500 post club Apple7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    It's dangerous to make statements about somebody or some thing that you don't know anything about. You wind up with egg on your face.

    We "worship" Christ, just not as God. "Worship" is relative. It merely means to give honor or respect to. We worship a court judge as a high official, as well as we do a president or a governor. We worship Jesus as the Son of God, worthy of high praise and honor. The only One we worship as God Almighty is Jehovah,
    the Father
    . So you are very WRONG about your accusation.

    Do you worship three Gods? We only worship one. Jehovah.

    If you worship Jehovah, then you should be called Jehovahians.

    Only Yahweh gives access to Yahweh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post

    Only Yahweh gives access to Yahweh.
    Right.

    He gave us His son.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Mind1Spirit View Post
    Right.

    He gave us His son.

    Therefore, Jesus is God...

    Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. (John 14.6)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    Therefore, Jesus is God...

    Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. (John 14.6)
    How does that make Jesus God?

    The following verses show us that Jesus is not God but shows us that the father of the only true God. In Jesus's own words.

    John 17

    These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom THOU HAST SENT. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    How does that make Jesus God?

    The following verses show us that Jesus is not God but shows us that the father of the only true God. In Jesus's own words.

    John 17

    These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom THOU HAST SENT. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
    Not exactly a proof text he tossed out there was it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    How does that make Jesus God?

    The following verses show us that Jesus is not God but shows us that the father of the only true God. In Jesus's own words.

    John 17

    These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom THOU HAST SENT. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
    Too bad you ignore the verses that tell us how that all came about. He was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. God is the ONLY Saviour, He became flesh and died on the Cross to save men from their sins. He came out from God, down from heaven, and dwelt among us.


    It's all there, but you prefer to deny all that, so you can preach your heresy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    How does that make Jesus God?

    Only Yahweh gives access to Yahweh.


    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    The following verses show us that Jesus is not God but shows us that the father of the only true God. In Jesus's own words.

    John 17

    These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom THOU HAST SENT. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
    Regarding John 17 there are absolutely no grammatical reasons at all for denying that αληθινον θεον refers to Jesus Christ.

    This can be deduced from a study of the article with multiple substantives connected via kai.


    αυτη δε εστιν η αιωνιος ζωη ινα γινωσκωσιν σε τον μονον αληθινον θεον και ον απεστειλας ιησουν χριστον

    hautē de estin hē aiōnios zōē hina ginōskōsin se ton monon alēthinon theon kai hon apesteilas Iēsoun christon

    And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. (John 17.3)

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Too bad you ignore the verses that tell us how that all came about. He was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. God is the ONLY Saviour, He became flesh and died on the Cross to save men from their sins. He came out from God, down from heaven, and dwelt among us.


    It's all there, but you prefer to deny all that, so you can preach your heresy.
    Jesus was the word of God, because he only spoke what God gave him to speak. He said his words we're not his own, but his father's which is in heaven, and it was he who sent him. So yes the word was God. Because God gave Christ Jesus every word to speak and Jesus spoke it. Doing the father's will and denying his own will to bare witness to the truth.

    And I believe Jesus when he says that the father is the only true God. And that God sent him. They are his own words and I believe that they are the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    Only Yahweh gives access to Yahweh.




    Regarding John 17 there are absolutely no grammatical reasons at all for denying that αληθινον θεον refers to Jesus Christ.

    This can be deduced from a study of the article with multiple substantives connected via kai.


    αυτη δε εστιν η αιωνιος ζωη ινα γινωσκωσιν σε τον μονον αληθινον θεον και ον απεστειλας ιησουν χριστον

    hautē de estin hē aiōnios zōē hina ginōskōsin se ton monon alēthinon theon kai hon apesteilas Iēsoun christon

    And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. (John 17.3)
    The verse is self explanatory, and Jesus only ever spoke the truth, so the father is the only true God and he sent Jesus, just as Jesus himself says.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    The verse is self explanatory, and Jesus only ever spoke the truth, so the father is the only true God and he sent Jesus, just as Jesus himself says.
    Is God triune? And is Jesus a created being?
    If any of my views seem to be strange or new to you, it is to be hoped that you will not close your mind to them, but will emulate the noble Bereans, and not only read and study the chapters would discuss, but will also search the Scriptures to see whether these things be so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Jesus was the word of God, because he only spoke what God gave him to speak.
    That is not the implication of the passage (John 1:1)
    If any of my views seem to be strange or new to you, it is to be hoped that you will not close your mind to them, but will emulate the noble Bereans, and not only read and study the chapters would discuss, but will also search the Scriptures to see whether these things be so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Is God triune? And is Jesus a created being?
    God is not triune, the father is God, and he is the God of Jesus, as said by Jesus himself.

    As for Jesus being created, that doesn't concern me as it's nothing to do with me, that's in God's hands. I'm to believe the gospel and live by the will of God and bring the love of God and the life of Christ to others with the hope that Christ can save as many who believe in him and believe in the word of God which was brought first my him in the gospel, the ministry of reconciliation. Which God who was in Christ was reconciling the world into himself by.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    God is not triune, the father is God, and he is the God of Jesus, as said by Jesus himself.

    As for Jesus being created, that doesn't concern me as it's nothing to do with me, that's in God's hands. I'm to believe the gospel and live by the will of God and bring the love of God and the life of Christ to others with the hope that Christ can save as many who believe in him and believe in the word of God which was brought first my him in the gospel, the ministry of reconciliation. Which God who was in Christ was reconciling the world into himself by.
    Well, it does concern you. And here is why......If Jesus wasn't created and not God, then you're a polytheist. And a heretic of the first order.

    And if you don't know what a polytheist is, I would suggest you look it up.
    If any of my views seem to be strange or new to you, it is to be hoped that you will not close your mind to them, but will emulate the noble Bereans, and not only read and study the chapters would discuss, but will also search the Scriptures to see whether these things be so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Jesus was the word of God, because he only spoke what God gave him to speak.
    Wrong.


    Pay close attention. Read what you wrote, and then read what the Bible says. IT SAYS: "His NAME is called the Word of God."

    Rev.19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

    Are you blind? "The Word was God"...."The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

    John 1:1
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


    This is why I can never make it past your first sentence. You make stuff up that is total baloney. Read the Bible, for crying out loud. Pay attention and learn something for a change. Stop acting like you know what you're talking about. HIS NAME IS CALLED THE WORD OF GOD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    That is not the implication of the passage (John 1:1)
    Jesus only spoke what the father gave him so speak, thus he only spoke the word of God.

    John 12

    For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak

    John 3

    For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life

    John 7

    Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself

    John 14

    Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    John 17

    Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

    and ask John 4 shows that Jesus is sent by God and he also says this

    John 4

    But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

    And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

    And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

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