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Thread: God Made Mankind Upright and That Contradicts the Theory of Original Sin

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Colossians 2:13 and Original Sin

    In order to examine the results of personal sins in regard to death let us look first at the following verse :

    "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins" (Eph.2:1).

    Joseph Benson wrote that "they are under condemnation, on account of their past depravity and various transgressions, to the second death, or to future wrath and punishment, like criminals under sentence of death for their crimes" [emphasis added] (Joseph Benson, Benson Commentary on the Old and New Testaments, Commentary at Ephesians 2:1).

    In The Pulpit Commentary we read that "the death ascribed to the Ephesians in their natural state is evidently spiritual death, and "trespasses and sins," being in the dative seems to indicate the cause of death - 'dead through your trespasses and your sins' (R.V.)" (The Pulpit Commentary)

    Paul also tells the believers at Colosse the following:

    "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses"
    (Col.2:13).

    In Vincent's Word Studies we read the following: "In your sins...the dative is instrumental, through or by" (Marvin R. Vincent, Vincent's Word Studies)

    At Colossians 2:13 we read that Paul tells these people that they were dead previously but now have been made "alive with Christ." This can only be speaking of them receiving spiritual life so their death was a spiritual death. So these people died spiritually as a result of their own sin. That means that they were alive spiritually before they sinned because no one can die spiritually unless he is first alive spiritually. And the only possible way that these people were alive spiritually before they sinned is because they emerged from the womb spiritually alive.

    That means that no one emerges from the womb spiritually dead and that completely destroys the theory of Original Sin which teaches that all people emerge from the womb spiritually dead. Thomas R. Schreiner is clearly in error when he says that "all people sin individually because they enter the world spiritually dead on the basis of their union with Adam" (Thomas R. Schreiner, Adam, the Fall, and Original Sin", 273-74).

    The theory of Original Sin is very harmful to the cause of Christianity because it makes the LORD God the author of sin. When unbelievers hear Christians teach that little babies are guilty of Adam's sin they have a really good reason to reject Christianity.
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; March 17th, 2018 at 07:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    In order to examine the results of personal sins in regard to death let us look first at the following verse :

    "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins" (Eph.2:1).

    Joseph Benson wrote that "they are under condemnation, on account of their past depravity and various transgressions, to the second death, or to future wrath and punishment, like criminals under sentence of death for their crimes" [emphasis added] (Joseph Benson, Benson Commentary on the Old and New Testaments, Commentary at Ephesians 2:1).

    In The Pulpit Commentary we read that "the death ascribed to the Ephesians in their natural state is evidently spiritual death, and "trespasses and sins," being in the dative seems to indicate the cause of death - 'dead through your trespasses and your sins' (R.V.)" (The Pulpit Commentary)

    Paul also tells the believers at Colosse the following:

    "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses"
    (Col.2:13).

    In Vincent's Word Studies we read the following: "In your sins...the dative is instrumental, through or by" (Marvin R. Vincent, Vincent's Word Studies)

    At Colossians 2:13 we read that Paul tells these people that they were dead previously but now have been made "alive with Christ." This can only be speaking of them receiving spiritual life so their death was a spiritual death. So these people died spiritually as a result of their own sin. That means that they were alive spiritually before they sinned because no one can die spiritually unless he is first alive spiritually. And the only possible way that these people were alive spiritually before they sinned is because they emerged from the womb spiritually alive.

    That means that no one emerges from the womb spiritually dead and that completely destroys the theory of Original Sin which teaches that all people emerge from the womb spiritually dead. Thomas R. Schreiner is clearly in error when he says that "all people sin individually because they enter the world spiritually dead on the basis of their union with Adam" (Thomas R. Schreiner, Adam, the Fall, and Original Sin", 273-74).

    The theory of Original Sin is very harmful to the cause of Christianity because it makes the LORD God the author of sin. When unbelievers hear Christians teach that little babies are guilty of Adam's sin they have a really good reason to reject Christianity.


    Hi , and sin began before Adam ,with Angels and Lucifer !!

    Then sin entered when Man sinned and from Adam to Moses , Rom 5:14 and Rom 3:23 , all have sinned !!

    dan p

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    In order to examine the results of personal sins in regard to death let us look first at the following verse :

    "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins" (Eph.2:1).

    Joseph Benson wrote
    In The Pulpit Commentary we read that


    In Vincent's Word Studies we read

    At Colossians 2:13 we read
    The theory of Original Sin is very harmful to the cause of Christianity because it makes the LORD God the author of sin. When unbelievers hear Christians teach that little babies are guilty of Adam's sin they have a really good reason to reject Christianity.
    More of the kid's "let us look...we read....Blah Blah writes....In Blah Blah Blah we read....," Ad nauseam, and a duplicate topic thread, as he keeps threading this "original sin" topic.

    Jerry, on numerous threads, and just today:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    There can be no doubt whatsoever...
    There can be no doubt whatsoever that you're morphing into Pate.
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    That means that no one emerges from the womb spiritually dead and that completely destroys the theory of
    Another one of his debate clinchers-" that completely destroys the theory ..."


    And thanks for qualifying "destroys" with "completely," Jerry.We would not want a "partially destroyed."

    Add that debate ender to....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    There can be no doubt whatsoever...
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    ...we read....Blah Blah writes....In Blah Blah Blah we read....," Ad nauseam, and a duplicate topic thread, as he keeps threading this "original sin" topic.
    At least we know what you think of the Scriptures..."Blah Blah Blah"

    There can be no doubt whatsoever that you're morphing into God's Truth.

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    There can be no doubt, that you misread what I posted, as I was referencing you quoting others, not the scriptures. There can also be no doubt, that Genesis-Revelation completely(my emphasis-you taught us that; we learned that from you) destroys your no "original sin" laughable, ridiculous theories, and you are assassinating the messengers, and running and hiding, from my point, Ironside-ite.

    How did I do?
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    There can be no doubt, that you misread what I posted, as I was referencing you quoting others, not the scriptures. There can also be no doubt, that Genesis-Revelation completely(my emphasis-you taught us that; we learned that from you) destroys your no "original sin" laughable, ridiculous theories, and you are assassinating the messengers, and running and hiding, from my point, Ironside-ite.

    How did I do?
    Once again you prove that you put more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually teach.

    And that explains why you did not even attempt to prove anything that I said in my initial post is in error.

    Your handle of "Scripture-Lite" fits you perfectly!

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Once again you prove that you put more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually teach.

    Sure, Jerry...How did you not win an Oscar?Good one!:

    Jerry: "Sir Robert Anderson says....(574 times in the last year)....Paul Sadler of The Berean Bible Institute pens...(345 times in the last year)....The Greek scholar/lexicon translates.....(23,458 times in the last year)............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................( no close quote...I'd be banned for having a 23 page post, filling in all the names of the great mid Acts giants Jer digs, and quotes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    (Fill in the blank of anyone with whom disagrees with jerry, as her is always right) made a huge mistake when he departed from the sound teachings of the giants of Mid Acts dispensationalism (Sir Robert Anderson and J.C. O’Hair)and began to teach that(fill in the blank of any doctrine that contradicts Jerry)

    There can be no doubt whatsoever, as it is clear, that we see you put more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually teach, and are assassinating me, and running, and hiding.


    We read where that great giant of Mid Acts dispensationalism, and TOL, saint John W., wrote the same:
    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    There can be no doubt whatsoever, as it is clear, evident, obvious, that we see Jerry S., the kid, puts more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than he does in what the Scriptures actually teach, and is assassinating others,and running, and hiding. Why should we believe Jerry, instead of Paul?

    How did I do?
    Saint John W

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    delete
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    How did I do?
    Still stale and very boring!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    And that explains why you did not even attempt to prove anything that I said in my initial post is in error.

    Your handle of "Scripture-Lite" fits you perfectly!



    There can be no doubt whatsoever, that Jerry is running and hiding, with his ridiculous, silly theories, and ignores what the great mid Acts giant, sir Paul says here:

    Romans-Philemon

    ...and why he did not even attempt to prove anything that I have said here, www.theologyonline.com,and this also explains why he is assassinating the messengers, on TOL.

    Your handle of "It All Says the same thing" fits you well, Ironside-lite-ist! BrIlLiAnT!(my caps lock is malfunctioning)


    How did I do?
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    There can be no doubt whatsoever, that Jerry is wrong with his laughable, silly theories, because I included "There can be no doubt whatsoever" in this post.


    How did I do?
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Why don't you play like you are an adult and actually address what Paul said at Colossians 2:13.

    Do you have it in you, Scripture-Lite?

    Or are we going to continue to hear your childish patter?

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    God Made Mankind Upright and That Contradicts the Theory of Original Sin

    Here we can see that mankind was made upright:

    "So I turned my mind to understand, to investigate and to search out wisdom and the scheme of things and to understand the stupidity of wickedness and the madness of folly. I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare. 'Look,' says the Teacher, 'this is what I have discovered: Adding one thing to another to discover the scheme of things--while I was still searching but not finding--I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all. This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes'" (Eccl.7:25-29).

    According to the false theory of Original Sin all people emerge from the womb totally corrupted in both body and soul.

    I cannot understand why anyone would ever defend that deplorable theory, especially since it makes the LORD the author of sin. And who in their right mind would ever think that the LORD would hold infants responsible for the sins of Adam?
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; April 4th, 2018 at 02:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Still stale and very boring!
    There can be no doubt whatsoever, that you are continuing to attempt to assassinate me, and running and hiding from this obvious, clear fact.


    How did I do?
    Saint John W

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