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Thread: Gun Control History

  1. #31
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    He could argue with equal validity that discipline causes school shootings.
    Psychiatric Drugs—Regulatory Warnings on Violence, Mania, Psychosis, Homicide
    Fact: Despite 27 international drug regulatory warnings on psychiatric drugs citing effects of mania, hostility, violence and even homicidal ideation, and dozens of high profile shootings/killings tied to psychiatric drug use, there has yet to be a federal investigation on the link between psychiatric drugs and acts of senseless violence.
    Fact: At least 35 school shootings and/or school-related acts of violence have been committed by those taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs resulting in 169 wounded and 79 killed (in other school shootings, information about their drug use was never made public—neither confirming or refuting if they were under the influence of prescribed drugs).
    Fact: Between 2004 and 2012, there have been 14,773 reports to the U.S. FDA’s MedWatch system on psychiatric drugs causing violent side effects including: 1,531 cases of homicidal ideation/homicide, 3,287 cases of mania & 8,219 cases of aggression. Note: The FDA estimates that less than 1% of all serious events are ever reported to it, so the actual number of side effects occurring are most certainly higher.

    Please post the known side effects of discipline and how those side effects relate to school shootings.
    Please post the known side effects of wearing jeans to school and how those side effects relate to school shootings.
    Learn to read what is written.

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  2. #32
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    If you're right, you should be able to show at least one study in the literature confirming that meds cause school violence. What have you got?
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  3. #33
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    If you're right, you should be able to show at least one study.
    Nope. This is incorrect.

  4. #34
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Barbarian observes:
    If you're right, you should be able to show at least one study.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Nope. This is incorrect.
    In other words, you have nothing. Your admission noted.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  5. #35
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  6. #36
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    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  7. #37
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    (Barbarian asks GO for a study actually documenting his beliefs)

    (GO can't find a study, but posts a cartoon)

    And that says it all, doesn't it?
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    That says it all, doesn't it?
    Nope.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Stripe For Your Post:

    genuineoriginal (March 14th, 2018)

  10. #39
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    (GO posts a cartoon)
    Your turn, please post a cartoon that shows that wearing jeans causes school shootings, since you can't find any information on the side-effects of wearing jeans.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  11. #40
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    duplicate
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  12. #41
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    (Barbarian asks GO for a study actually documenting his beliefs)

    (GO can't find a study, but posts a cartoon)

    And that says it all, doesn't it?

    (bunny trail attempt by GO)

    Nice try. There's a reason you can't find any research that supports your belief.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  13. #42
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    There's a reason you can't find any research that supports your belief.
    Why, yes there is.

    Many Antidepressant Studies Found Tainted by Pharma Company Influence
    After many lawsuits and a 2012 U.S. Department of Justice settlement, last month an independent review found that antidepressant drug Paxil (paroxetine) is not safe for teenagers. The finding contradicts the conclusions of the initial 2001 drug trial, which the manufacturer GlaxoSmithKline had funded, then used its results to market Paxil as safe for adolescents.
    The original trial, known as Study 329, is but one high-profile example of pharmaceutical industry influence known to pervade scientific research, including clinical trials the U.S. Food and Drug Administration requires pharma companies to fund in order to assess their products. For that reason, people who read scientific papers as part of their jobs have come to rely on meta-analyses, supposedly thorough reviews summarizing the evidence from multiple trials, rather than trust individual studies. But a new analysis casts doubt on that practice as well, finding that the vast majority of meta-analyses of antidepressants have some industry link, with a corresponding suppression of negative results.

    Antidepressant Review Shows Big Pharma Covers Up Links to Suicide
    In 2005, it was revealed that a Harvard psychiatrist and the pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly & Co. hid a secret 1988 internal memo showing that Lillyís own controlled clinical trials of the blockbuster antidepressant drug Prozac had a significantly higher rate of suicide attempts, hostility, violence, and psychosis than four other commonly used antidepressants in the 1980ís and 1990ís.
    The shocker is not that the medications can be more dangerous than depression itself, but the fact that drug companies are still lying about it.
    Researchers at the Nordic Cochrane Center, and University College London, analyzed 70 trials of the most common antidepressants, involving more than 18,000 people. They found that SSRI antidepressant drugs doubled the risk of suicide and aggressive behavior in teens under 18 years of age.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  14. #43
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Your turn, please post a cartoon that shows that wearing jeans causes school shootings,
    Why would I do that? I pointed out that there was the same correlation with school shootings that you lean on, with wearing jeans. Both have the same validity; none at all, until someone can show that one causes the other.

    since you can't find any information on the side-effects of wearing jeans.
    Great. We now agree that there is no conclusive evidence that either causes school shootings. Thank you.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  15. #44
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Barbarian chuckles:
    There's a reason you can't find any research that supports your belief.

    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Why, yes there is.
    (cites research that says some meds can make one more violent, but doesn't say anything about school shootings)

    Keep looking. It might be out there somewhere.

    Here's another problem for your belief:

    Between 1992 and 2015, total victimization rates for students ages 12–18 generally declined both at school and away from school. The total victimization rate at school declined 82 percent, from 181 victimizations per 1,000 students in 1992 to 33 victimizations per 1,000 students in 2015. The total victimization rate away from school declined 88 percent, from 173 victimizations per 1,000 students in 1992 to 21 victimizations per 1,000 students in 2015.

    The rate of serious violent victimization3 against students ages 12–18 was lower at school than away from school in most survey years between 1992 and 2008. Between 2009 and 2015, the rate at school was not measurably different from the rate away from school. The 2015 serious violent victimization rate for students ages 12–18 did not differ measurably from the 2014 rate either at school or away from school. In 2015, students experienced about 4 serious violent victimizations per 1,000 students at school and 4 serious violent victimizations per 1,000 students away from school.

    https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=49

    And yet, there are more kids on anti-depressants:
    The Antidepressant Generation
    https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/...nt-generation/

    These two facts are inconsistent with your assumption that medications are causing school shootings.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  16. #45
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Why would I do that? I pointed out that there was the same correlation with school shootings that you lean on, with wearing jeans. Both have the same validity; none at all, until someone can show that one causes the other.
    You keep claiming that I am relying on correlation after I keep pointing out that I am relying on reported side effects of the psychotropic drugs that the shooters have taken.
    That means you are creating a Straw Man argument.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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