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Thread: Just a few rapture questions

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    Just a few rapture questions

    Are there ANY scriptures that say we are goin to heaven when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye?

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DansingWall View Post
    Are there ANY scriptures that say we are goin to heaven when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye?
    Shalom.

    Today, evening and morning, night and day, is Shishi (Sixth), 12-22.

    I am an ex-dispensationalist. Dispensationalists believe in a reunification of Israel with a Seven-Year Tribulation preceding a One Thousand Year Millennium or Millennial Reign of Christ. The rapture is one of the doctrines of dispensationalism, in particular in the United States of America where I live and elsewhere around the world, premillennial pre-tribulation rapture dispensationalism. The teaching is a distinctive of the Plymouth Brethren Movement which originated in Plymouth England as I understand it. You may have heard of John Nelson Darby, who taught and popularized the teaching. Other teachers of dispensationalism are Scofield, and I don't remember who else. You may have heard of the Scofield Reference Bible I think it was called. I don't know if I have the spelling of his name correct. I grew up Plymouth Brethren. I know of the Brethren Assemblies. I attended Des Moines Gospel Chapel as a child, a youth, and a young adult. I went to Bible Camp at Lakeside Bible Camp. Since obtaining my two Bachelor of Science Degrees I have taken some courses free courses online with Dallas Theological Seminary. They are known to be Dispensational. Good teaching and good history.

    I do not know that the following verse talks about goin to heaven, but since you asked and you have some words right here it is I share it with you, from the King James Bible or rather the King James Version if you don't mind.

    1 Corinthians 15:52 KJV - 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Shalom.

    Today, evening and morning, night and day, is Shishi (Sixth), 12-22.

    I am an ex-dispensationalist. Dispensationalists believe in a reunification of Israel with a Seven-Year Tribulation preceding a One Thousand Year Millennium or Millennial Reign of Christ. The rapture is one of the doctrines of dispensationalism, in particular in the United States of America where I live and elsewhere around the world, premillennial pre-tribulation rapture dispensationalism. The teaching is a distinctive of the Plymouth Brethren Movement which originated in Plymouth England as I understand it. You may have heard of John Nelson Darby, who taught and popularized the teaching. Other teachers of dispensationalism are Scofield, and I don't remember who else. You may have heard of the Scofield Reference Bible I think it was called. I don't know if I have the spelling of his name correct. I grew up Plymouth Brethren. I know of the Brethren Assemblies. I attended Des Moines Gospel Chapel as a child, a youth, and a young adult. I went to Bible Camp at Lakeside Bible Camp. Since obtaining my two Bachelor of Science Degrees I have taken some courses free courses online with Dallas Theological Seminary. They are known to be Dispensational. Good teaching and good history.

    I do not know that the following verse talks about goin to heaven, but since you asked and you have some words right here it is I share it with you, from the King James Bible or rather the King James Version if you don't mind.

    1 Corinthians 15:52 KJV - 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    Many people believe that much knowledge comes from much studying, but knowledge in God comes from revelation from God.

    What do yo believe that verse means?

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    ISAIAH 27 {12} And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and YE SHALL BE GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O YE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. {13} And it shall come to pass in that day, that THE GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, AND SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE HOLY MOUNT AT JERUSALEM.

    There is a reason i ask the question. In this scripture from Isaiah you see the “last trumpet” being blown. The gathering of His people. Are they goin to heaven as the Rapturist claim? Nope. There headin for the holy mountain, Zion, the new Jerusalem for the 1000yr period of rest

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Many people believe that much knowledge comes from much studying, but knowledge in God comes from revelation from God.

    What do yo believe that verse means?
    Shalom.

    Today is Shishi, 12-22.

    If you are asking about 1 Corinthians 15:52 KJV, I simply accept it as written.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by DansingWall View Post
    ISAIAH 27 {12} And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and YE SHALL BE GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O YE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. {13} And it shall come to pass in that day, that THE GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, AND SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE HOLY MOUNT AT JERUSALEM.

    There is a reason i ask the question. In this scripture from Isaiah you see the “last trumpet” being blown. The gathering of His people. Are they goin to heaven as the Rapturist claim? Nope. There headin for the holy mountain, Zion, the new Jerusalem for the 1000yr period of rest
    Shalom.

    Today is Shishi, 12-22.

    I do not have Biblical support for your alternative to the view that you are rejecting. Good to reject what is false, or / and wrong.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by DansingWall View Post
    Are there ANY scriptures that say we are goin to heaven when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye?
    No. There are no scriptures that say we are going to heaven.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by DansingWall View Post
    Are there ANY scriptures that say we are goin to heaven when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye?
    You seem to already have your answer, so why are you asking.

    Where did Enoch go when he was raptured?
    Where did Elijah go when he was raptured?
    harpazō = "snatched out of the way"


    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [snatched away] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    You seem to already have your answer, so why are you asking.

    [SIZE=4]Where did Enoch go when he was raptured?
    Where did Elijah go when he was raptured?
    Dont know

    JOHN 3 [12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? [13] And NO MAN HATH ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN, BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    But i do know it wasnt to heaven

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    Quote Originally Posted by DansingWall View Post
    Dont know

    JOHN 3 [12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? [13] And NO MAN HATH ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN, BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    But i do know it wasnt to heaven
    I see you ignored the verses I posted. Were you confronted with information that you really didn't want to see?

    So, in the verse you posted, it indicates that the Son of God had both ascends into Heaven and descends from Heaven to the earth.

    Here is an excerpt from the verses I posted:
    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven - 1 Thes 4:16a
    ...and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thes 4:17b

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post

    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [snatched away] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
    Yup. We will be caught up in the clouds

    Daniel 7

    13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
    14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

    Like i said, we are goin to the kingdom afer being caught up in the clouds. Not heaven

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    Quote Originally Posted by DansingWall View Post
    Like i said, we are goin to the kingdom afer being caught up in the clouds. Not heaven
    Perhaps you can show me the scripture/scriptures that show that.

    So, by your statement, the Lord will never return to "heaven" once he has come to "the clouds" (presumably those that are above the earth). So, it will be a "one way trip" when Jesus returns?
    Because in the verses that I excerpted from 1 Thes 4, it clearly states that wherever Jesus is (or goes), we shall always be with him. This will leave God the Father "all alone" in heaven.

    PS: Also by quoting Daniel 7, you are stating that God the Father (Ancient of Days) is in the "clouds" above the earth (where the rain originates).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Shalom.

    1 Corinthians 15:52 KJV - 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    Since you are of the Pharisaical (Talmudic) Sect of Judaism, perhaps you can shed some light on the various blowings of the shofar. For example the phrase "last trump" refers to a specific feast and is actually the "last trump" in a long series of trumpet blasts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DansingWall View Post
    Are there ANY scriptures that say we are goin to heaven when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye?
    No and it doesn't mention any rapture in the Bible either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DansingWall View Post
    Are there ANY scriptures that say we are goin to heaven when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye?
    I These 4:13-17 state that so shall we ever be with the lord. So where is the lord? When he wastaken up ascended where was he taken to?

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