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Thread: The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

  1. #3391
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    Hi Mr. Knight, It is good to speak to you finally.

    Yes, it is very interesting as NASA is advertising they are going to send a ship to the sun that is 4,000 miles away. Somehow, I remember in school it was 93,000,000 miles away. Oh well, but the best of all.....

    They are going into the corona of the sun at 1 million degrees but first have to go through the outer layer which is only 10,000 degrees. I do a lot of metal work on my farm and have yet to hear about or see a metal that will stand up to those temps. About 5,000 degrees with pretty well melt anything we have. Guess they have been talking to Tony Stark or some other Marvel character.


    While I am still a rookie on this forum, I believe in the WORD of GOD and am at least a Geocentrist . NASA keep trying to confirm my position each time they speak or place an ad.

    Again, It is a privilege to speak to you as I have heard a great deal about you from others on other forums.

    Blade
    Thanks Blade and welcome to the discussion. That was a really good question and I'm glad you asked it. Thankfully it gave Clete a chance to answer it for you.
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  3. #3392
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Bladerunner,

    Sorry if I came off a bit rude in my last post.

    This flat earth stuff just strikes me as completely ridiculous but I have to admit that it is interesting to find all the correct answers to the questions and problems that flat-earthers bring up so I'll try to keep a lid on the flippant remarks.

    Welcome to TOL!
    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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  5. #3393
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    It is OK, I was were you are at one time.... A whole lifetime of believing what they told me and then! I don't really use it as a stump to speak from but do not shy away from it as any time.

    In any event, It is good to talk to you. God's speed

    Blade

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    Mr. Chair..... They advertised it on TV...Did have a good visual display..... There are many items where NASA is slowly letting it out; (that we have never been out of our atmosphere or landed on the moon.)

    Please Mr. Chair, let me say this first. I believe in Jesus Christ and His WORD, The Holy Bible. There are many scripture that tell us about the earth and most of the time they seem to conflict with our scientist.

    For many many years, I believed in the science, math, physics, etc. but sometime ago decided that too many variances, too many exceptions, too many outright lies have been told for our scientific data to be true.

    Even in Quantum Physics, they tell us, at a specific point in time, we would lose locality. That number is 10x-43.

    Our science has finally come to the conclusion, we no longer live in an Infinite universe but rather a finite one.

    I know this does not answer your question? The advertisement I spoke of was real and on TV. I have seen it several times which is why I remembered it so well a feat at my age. It might be also on You-tube but I have not tried to find it.

    Blade

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    If you believe this OP, you believe Jesus swooned and never died.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Over 1500 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFT_Dave View Post
    This is why we are debating flat earth

    1. Experiments could not detect motion to the earth. "Soon I came to the conclusion that our idea about the motion of the Earth with respect to the ether is incorrect, if we admit Michelson’s null result as a fact. This was the first path which led me to the special theory of relativity...I have come to believe that the motion of the Earth cannot be detected by any optical experiment--Albert Einstein “How I Created the Theory of Relativity,” Dec. 14, 1922

    2. The sun, moon, and stars tell us nothing about the shape of the earth. The sun and the moon are not habitations for life. They are lights in the sky that appear much smaller than the earth. They have no atmosphere, water/oceans, or forests. We observe them, along with the clouds and the stars, moving across the sky.

    3. The horizon line always appears straight/flat and is never curved. The horizon always rises up to our eye level regardless of how high we go. The higher we go the further into the distance we see the land and water/oceans rise up before us as a flat plane would do, we never see the earth drop away from us as we would if the earth were a globe.

    4. Everything we know about a globed earth and heliocentric universe is as "imagined" as Einstein's relative space/time universe. There exists much evidence that NASA faked the moon landings and is now faking space missions to keep us from finding out the earth is flat just as our God given senses and the Bible tell us.

    --Dave
    In order to fly from New York to southeast Asia, which is west and south of New York, the fastest straight line route is to fly northwest from New York instead of southwest.
    Southeast Asia is south and west of New York. But instead you fly northwest, in a certain direction, on a straight line, and you'll get to southeast Asia much faster than by flying southwest from New York instead.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    [COLOR="#0000FF"]...

    Yes, it is very interesting as NASA is advertising they are going to send a ship to the sun that is 4,000 miles away. Somehow, I remember in school it was 93,000,000 miles away...
    This is the part I was most surprised at. I think you misread something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    This is the part I was most surprised at. I think you misread something.
    NO, I like to have fell out of my seat as well. Did not have to read it, just listened to it...

    On another front: India is landing a spacecraft on MARS (they emphasized this...>on the first try...)

    Of course, we can have a colony on the moon, for we have now found ice water on it??????

    Mr. Chair,,,, you are going to have to get out more often... LOL no disrespect to yourself intended, only jest at best.

    Because they seem to be unable to keep up with what they have said in the past....It is so funny.

    Just to be frank, there are so many more from the MIT Engineer telling us we have never sent a spacecraft through the Van Allen Radiation Belt for it would FRY the computer on board......>to the astronauts (x2 sets) that tells us, we have never been beyond low earth orbit. That use to be around 70 miles but who knows these days.

    Do hope you have a great day sir.

    Blade

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    If you believe this OP, you believe Jesus swooned and never died.
    Mr. Raven,,,,,,why would I lie to you... It is on TV as an advertisement. All the other information is there if you really want to know!

    I have no problems with your post, just trying to make conversation?

    Have a good day sir.

    Blade

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    Over 750 post club Guyver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFT_Dave View Post
    This is why we are debating flat earth

    1. Experiments could not detect motion to the earth. "Soon I came to the conclusion that our idea about the motion of the Earth with respect to the ether is incorrect, if we admit Michelson’s null result as a fact. This was the first path which led me to the special theory of relativity...I have come to believe that the motion of the Earth cannot be detected by any optical experiment--Albert Einstein “How I Created the Theory of Relativity,” Dec. 14, 1922

    2. The sun, moon, and stars tell us nothing about the shape of the earth. The sun and the moon are not habitations for life. They are lights in the sky that appear much smaller than the earth. They have no atmosphere, water/oceans, or forests. We observe them, along with the clouds and the stars, moving across the sky.

    3. The horizon line always appears straight/flat and is never curved. The horizon always rises up to our eye level regardless of how high we go. The higher we go the further into the distance we see the land and water/oceans rise up before us as a flat plane would do, we never see the earth drop away from us as we would if the earth were a globe.

    4. Everything we know about a globed earth and heliocentric universe is as "imagined" as Einstein's relative space/time universe. There exists much evidence that NASA faked the moon landings and is now faking space missions to keep us from finding out the earth is flat just as our God given senses and the Bible tell us.

    --Dave
    Hahah....that’s funny.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    [COLOR="#0000FF"]NO, I like to have fell out of my seat as well. Did not have to read it, just listened to it...
    You clearly misheard. Go take a look at the NASA site.

    By the way- a private group in Israel has launched a probe to the Moon. It is expected to land in a few weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    That means that while Parker Solar Probe will be traveling through a space with temperatures of several million degrees, the surface of the heat shield that faces the Sun will only get heated to about 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit (about 1,400 degrees Celsius).

    https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...lar-probe-melt
    Amazing mission... 213,200 miles per hour relative to the Sun, that's the fastest spacecraft yet.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

  17. #3403
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    It is OK, I was were you are at one time.... A whole lifetime of believing what they told me and then! I don't really use it as a stump to speak from but do not shy away from it as any time.

    In any event, It is good to talk to you. God's speed

    Blade
    Okay, first of all if you don't use the [ quote] tags, i'm not at all likely to know that you've responded to my post. I don't read every post in the thread. I know you're new so its no big deal. I'm just saying that you'll make people's lives easier if you use the [ quote] tags (without the space, of course).

    2nd, posting is pretty colors is silly. I mention that just so as to give an example of what a personal opinion looks like.

    3rd, the fact that the Earth is not flat is not my opinion and it is something that I merely believe because "they" told me. I have proven it. I personally have flatly proven it and done so on this very thread. Anyone who reads this thread or even just my posts and remains unconvinced is either stupid, a liar, indoctrinated or a combination of the three.

    And I am not kidding about that nor am I trying to be gratuitously insulting for effect, I mean it. Anyone who has spent any time at all doing real investigation and applying highschool level math knows for a fact that the Earth cannot possibly be flat. Those who remain unconvinced don't care about the truth of reality, no matter how many bible versses they quote, and they aren't interested in being convinced, either that or they are simply incapable of the level of thought required to be convinced, or, as I said, perhaps its a combination of those things.

    So, I'm going to assume that you're interested in my proof. I've refuted every argument made by those who pretend to believe that the Earth is flat (I believe most of them to be lying) but the one post I like the best should, by itself, put the entire discussion to bed (and does so for those interested in learning AND accepting the truth of reality)...


    Proof That the Earth Cannot Be Flat


    The last few days I've been playing around with some math and thought I'd post some of it here to see if it might move some of the flat earthers maybe an inch or two back toward reality...

    Let's put some of the sunset images we've taken to good use and see if what was observed can be made to fit with the FET (Flat Earth Theory).

    FET claims the Sun is approximately 3000 miles above the Earth and they do not dispute well established distances between points on the surface of the Earth. I'm going to be using these two presuppositions in my calculations and you'll want to refer to the following diagram to keep track of the variables...

    Attachment 26417

    Side a is the distance from the ground to the Sun (3000 mi).
    Side b is the distance from an observer to a point on the Earth where the Sun is directly over head.
    Side c (a.k.a. the hypotenuse) is the distance from the observer to the Sun itself.
    Angle A is the height of the Sun above the horizon in degrees as seen from the observer.
    Angle C is always 90°
    Angle B is not relevant to this discussion.

    Note from the start that if the Earth is flat and the Sun is 3000 miles up (or any number of miles up for that matter) that angle A can never ever get to 0°. The Sun would never set because no matter how long you make side b of that triangle, angle A is always a positive number. The only way for the Sun to set on a flat Earth is if the Sun dipped below the plane of the flat Earth. If that were to happen, then it would be night everywhere on Earth at once, which we know does not happen. It's always noon somewhere on the Earth and not only that but the Sun is directly over head at some point on the Earth (this is called the subsolar point - look it up).

    That, by itself, ought to be enough to convince anyone that the Earth cannot be flat but there's more. Let's take a look at some of these photos we took last week...

    So, since we're assuming a flat Earth, I'm going to focus on just a couple of photos that both show the position of the Sun in degrees above the horizon. I should point out that you don't have to trust the numbers generated by the app on the phones used to take these photos. The numbers can be confirmed by anyone by simply fashioning a simple sextant from a cheap plastic protractor.

    I'll use these two photos...

    Attachment 26418 Attachment 26419

    On the left is the Sun's position as seen from my house on May 8th, 2018 at 01:00 UCT (8:00:01pm central time)
    On the right is the Sun's position as seen from Knight's house on the same day just 38 seconds later (7:00:39pm mountain time).

    The position of the Sun at my house is just .1° above the horizon while at Knight's it was 10.2° (This information is displayed just to the right of the Sun position indicator. It shows the Sun's heading and then it's elevation in degrees. On Knight's photo it's sort of hidden a little by the NW direction indicator but it reads "Sun 284.0 W 10.2°" The 10.2 is the elevation above the horizon in degrees)

    So, let's look at Knight's first...

    How far West (more specifically, in the direct of the Sun - in Knight's case 284° W) would you have to go from Knight's house (where sides b and c meet) to get to a place on a flat Earth where the Sun was directily over head (where sides a and b meet)?

    It turns out that when dealing with right triangles if you have the length of any one side and either angle A or B, you can know everything about the whole triangle!
    The math is boring and so I'm not going to show all that. Just go HERE and plug in the numbers for side b (3000) and angle A (10.2).
    You get the following results...

    Someone 16,700 miles (length of side b) to his west would see the Sun directly overhead.

    There is no point on Earth 16,700 miles from Denver Colorado.


    Still not convinced? Well just wait till you plug in the numbers from my house!


    At my house the Sun was only .1 degrees above the horizon. So plugging in the numbers from my house (side b = 3000 and angle A = .1) we get the following results...

    You have to go 1,720,000 miles to my West to find high noon beneath a Sun that was 3000 miles above the surface of a flat Earth.

    That's One MILLION seven hundred twenty THOUSAND miles!
    (That's more that 7 times the real distance to the Moon!)

    Now seriously folks! What more proof could you possibly need? How are you going to possibly refute this?

    Are you going to deny that the Sun is about 10° further above the horizon in Denver than it is in Houston? Even if you did that, the distance to noon calculations aren't dependent on that!

    Are you going to challenge the validity of the Pythagorean Theorem?

    It seems that's your only option! It's either refute the Pythagorean Theorem or you must reject the notion that the Earth is flat based on the mere fact that the Sun gets to within .1° of the horizon at one point on the Earth while at the same time being directly over head at another.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    So let's do some more math!

    This time let's assume that the distances on Earth as reported by Google Earth are accurate but that the Earth is flat.

    To make the numbers easy, lets assume a location on the equator on an equinox.

    And we'll use the same diagram as before...

    Attachment 26421

    When it is Noon (90° over head (angle C) in one place it is Sunset or Sunrise 6225.25 miles away (side b).
    For our Sunset angle (angle A) we'll stick with .1° because any angle below that produces numbers that are even more embarrassing for the FET.

    So, plugging in the numbers HERE, we get the following results....

    The Sun would have to be a mere 10.865122 miles above the surface of a flat Earth.

    If you use a smaller number for angle a, then the Sun has to be closer and closer to the surface. An angle of .01 would require the Sun to be just over one mile above the surface of the Earth.


    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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  19. #3404
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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    You clearly misheard. Go take a look at the NASA site.

    By the way- a private group in Israel has launched a probe to the Moon. It is expected to land in a few weeks.
    Mr. Chair...I am a person that very carefully evaluates what is said and try very hard to not misunderstand anything, especially when I have heard it several times.

    I don't really care what NASA has to say on its web site. In my opinion, they are liars and cannot be trusted for anything. Again, that is my opinion and I hope you respect that.

    Yes, I have not heard about Israel's moon landing but it does not surprise me.

    Have only heard about the Indian landing on Mars and they emphasized that the landing took place on the very first try. This ad was a radio commercial/doc. Only about 15 sec or so in length and have only heard it once or twice as I do not listen to the radio very much.

    The idea that the earth is most likely flat has nothing to do with the way You or I are living today. I believe that it is flat as I believe in the literal, historical and grammatical WORD of GOD. It is simple as that.

    Do not think that I have come to my conclusion(s) overnight. It took many years of 'off and on' research to convince myself of this fact. Like I said, I was once where you are at today.

    Mr. Chair: I hope you take the Sun Probe (commercial/doc--30-60 seconds)it as I have presented it to you; in good faith.

    I do hope you have a good day sir.

    Blade
    Last edited by JudgeRightly; March 14th, 2019 at 09:56 AM.

  20. #3405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Okay, first of all if you don't use the [ quote] tags, i'm not at all likely to know that you've responded to my post. I don't read every post in the thread. I know you're new so its no big deal. I'm just saying that you'll make people's lives easier if you use the [ quote] tags (without the space, of course).
    Mr. Clete, My apologies for not using "reply with Quote". I usually try to use "reply" when I have something that is general and not specific to anyone person. In your case, I will use "reply with Quote" as you wish?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    2nd, posting is pretty colors is silly. I mention that just so as to give an example of what a personal opinion looks like.
    The colors I pick stay unless that is against the forums rules?

    Is it not called hypocrisy if you call me out on colors yet in this post you are using at least three different colors?



    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    3rd, the fact that the Earth is not flat is not my opinion and it is something that I merely believe because "they" told me. I have proven it. I personally have flatly proven it and done so on this very thread. Anyone who reads this thread or even just my posts and remains unconvinced is either stupid, a liar, indoctrinated or a combination of the three.
    You said:"...is either stupid, a liar, indoctrinated or a combination of the three".

    Yes, it is your opinion, based on facts that have convinced you. It is the same process only a different view for myself. Calling me a names will not effect a different outcome in my opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    And I am not kidding about that nor am I trying to be gratuitously insulting for effect, I mean it. Anyone who has spent any time at all doing real investigation and applying highschool level math knows for a fact that the Earth cannot possibly be flat. Those who remain unconvinced don't care about the truth of reality, no matter how many bible versses they quote, and they aren't interested in being convinced, either that or they are simply incapable of the level of thought required to be convinced, or, as I said, perhaps its a combination of those things.

    So, I'm going to assume that you're interested in my proof. I've refuted every argument made by those who pretend to believe that the Earth is flat (I believe most of them to be lying) but the one post I like the best should, by itself, put the entire discussion to bed (and does so for those interested in learning AND accepting the truth of reality)...
    I was going to ask for the post that you gave your proof but you have already provided it below. I will read it and let you know what I think of it.

    And you can dispense with your flattery as you are simply wasting your breathe, I learned a long time ago, words attacking someone else does nothing except reflex on the one who is speaking.



    [COLOR="#FF8C00"]Proof That the Earth Cannot Be Flat


    The last few days I've been playing around with some math and thought I'd post some of it here to see if it might move some of the flat earthers maybe an inch or two back toward reality...

    Let's put some of the sunset images we've taken to good use and see if what was observed can be made to fit with the FET (Flat Earth Theory).

    FET claims the Sun is approximately 3000 miles above the Earth and they do not dispute well established distances between points on the surface of the Earth. I'm going to be using these two presuppositions in my calculations and you'll want to refer to the following diagram to keep track of the variables...

    Attachment 26417

    Side a is the distance from the ground to the Sun (3000 mi).
    Side b is the distance from an observer to a point on the Earth where the Sun is directly over head.
    Side c (a.k.a. the hypotenuse) is the distance from the observer to the Sun itself.
    Angle A is the height of the Sun above the horizon in degrees as seen from the observer.
    Angle C is always 90°
    Angle B is not relevant to this discussion.

    Note from the start that if the Earth is flat and the Sun is 3000 miles up (or any number of miles up for that matter) that angle A can never ever get to 0°. The Sun would never set because no matter how long you make side b of that triangle, angle A is always a positive number. The only way for the Sun to set on a flat Earth is if the Sun dipped below the plane of the flat Earth. If that were to happen, then it would be night everywhere on Earth at once, which we know does not happen. It's always noon somewhere on the Earth and not only that but the Sun is directly over head at some point on the Earth (this is called the subsolar point - look it up).

    That, by itself, ought to be enough to convince anyone that the Earth cannot be flat but there's more. Let's take a look at some of these photos we took last week...
    I will agree with your findings BUT, it seems you have left out the size of the sun (magnification if any and what type).

    If one takes a flashlight while standing in the middle of your living room floor, point the light to the floor while holding the it chest-high. There is a "circle"(not a ball)of light on the floor which the light illuminates. Outside this circle, it continually gets darker the further away you get from the circle of light on the floor.

    Lets, go one step further.Use the above principle with a penlight or a light with magnification and or zoom lens. The result are astonishing and do not correlate with your math project below

    The question is: Since GOD made the SUN and MOON and Stars,,,,,,What Kind of light did HE use. If you know the answer to this then some will consider you a GOD, I will not!


    [COLOR="#FF8C00"]So, since we're assuming a flat Earth, I'm going to focus on just a couple of photos that both show the position of the Sun in degrees above the horizon. I should point out that you don't have to trust the numbers generated by the app on the phones used to take these photos. The numbers can be confirmed by anyone by simply fashioning a simple sextant from a cheap plastic protractor.

    I'll use these two photos...

    Attachment 26418 Attachment 26419

    On the left is the Sun's position as seen from my house on May 8th, 2018 at 01:00 UCT (8:00:01pm central time)
    On the right is the Sun's position as seen from Knight's house on the same day just 38 seconds later (7:00:39pm mountain time).

    The position of the Sun at my house is just .1° above the horizon while at Knight's it was 10.2° (This information is displayed just to the right of the Sun position indicator. It shows the Sun's heading and then it's elevation in degrees. On Knight's photo it's sort of hidden a little by the NW direction indicator but it reads "Sun 284.0 W 10.2°" The 10.2 is the elevation above the horizon in degrees)

    So, let's look at Knight's first...

    How far West (more specifically, in the direct of the Sun - in Knight's case 284° W) would you have to go from Knight's house (where sides b and c meet) to get to a place on a flat Earth where the Sun was directily over head (where sides a and b meet)?

    It turns out that when dealing with right triangles if you have the length of any one side and either angle A or B, you can know everything about the whole triangle!
    The math is boring and so I'm not going to show all that. Just go HERE and plug in the numbers for side b (3000) and angle A (10.2).
    You get the following results...

    Someone 16,700 miles (length of side b) to his west would see the Sun directly overhead.

    There is no point on Earth 16,700 miles from Denver Colorado.


    Still not convinced? Well just wait till you plug in the numbers from my house!


    At my house the Sun was only .1 degrees above the horizon. So plugging in the numbers from my house (side b = 3000 and angle A = .1) we get the following results...

    You have to go 1,720,000 miles to my West to find high noon beneath a Sun that was 3000 miles above the surface of a flat Earth.

    That's One MILLION seven hundred twenty THOUSAND miles!
    (That's more that 7 times the real distance to the Moon!)

    Now seriously folks! What more proof could you possibly need? How are you going to possibly refute this?

    Are you going to deny that the Sun is about 10° further above the horizon in Denver than it is in Houston? Even if you did that, the distance to noon calculations aren't dependent on that!

    Are you going to challenge the validity of the Pythagorean Theorem?

    It seems that's your only option! It's either refute the Pythagorean Theorem or you must reject the notion that the Earth is flat based on the mere fact that the Sun gets to within .1° of the horizon at one point on the Earth while at the same time being directly over head at another.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    So let's do some more math!

    This time let's assume that the distances on Earth as reported by Google Earth are accurate but that the Earth is flat.

    To make the numbers easy, lets assume a location on the equator on an equinox.

    And we'll use the same diagram as before...

    Attachment 26421

    When it is Noon (90° over head (angle C) in one place it is Sunset or Sunrise 6225.25 miles away (side b).
    For our Sunset angle (angle A) we'll stick with .1° because any angle below that produces numbers that are even more embarrassing for the FET.

    So, plugging in the numbers HERE, we get the following results....

    The Sun would have to be a mere 10.865122 miles above the surface of a flat Earth.

    If you use a smaller number for angle a, then the Sun has to be closer and closer to the surface. An angle of .01 would require the Sun to be just over one mile above the surface of the Earth.


    Clete
    Thank you for your effort. Yet, there are holes in the math you have used. While I do not have the time to explain nor do I have to the time to debate this any further, the bottom line is: You have not changed my mind.

    Again thank you for the effort and the special effects were excellent!

    Do hope you have a great day sir.

    Blade
    Last edited by JudgeRightly; March 14th, 2019 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Fixed formatting

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