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Thread: The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

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    The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

    This is why we are debating flat earth

    1. Experiments could not detect motion to the earth. "Soon I came to the conclusion that our idea about the motion of the Earth with respect to the ether is incorrect, if we admit Michelson’s null result as a fact. This was the first path which led me to the special theory of relativity...I have come to believe that the motion of the Earth cannot be detected by any optical experiment--Albert Einstein “How I Created the Theory of Relativity,” Dec. 14, 1922

    2. The sun, moon, and stars tell us nothing about the shape of the earth. The sun and the moon are not habitations for life. They are lights in the sky that appear much smaller than the earth. They have no atmosphere, water/oceans, or forests. We observe them, along with the clouds and the stars, moving across the sky.

    3. The horizon line always appears straight/flat and is never curved. The horizon always rises up to our eye level regardless of how high we go. The higher we go the further into the distance we see the land and water/oceans rise up before us as a flat plane would do, we never see the earth drop away from us as we would if the earth were a globe.

    4. Everything we know about a globed earth and heliocentric universe is as "imagined" as Einstein's relative space/time universe. There exists much evidence that NASA faked the moon landings and is now faking space missions to keep us from finding out the earth is flat just as our God given senses and the Bible tell us.

    --Dave
    www.dynamicfreetheism.com
    The only view of ultimate reality that provides
    rational answers to the questions of human origin, destiny, and dignity.
    The only view that proves the existence and explains
    the nature of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFT_Dave View Post
    This is why we are debating flat earth

    1. Experiments could not detect motion to the earth. "Soon I came to the conclusion that our idea about the motion of the Earth with respect to the ether is incorrect, if we admit Michelson’s null result as a fact. This was the first path which led me to the special theory of relativity...I have come to believe that the motion of the Earth cannot be detected by any optical experiment--Albert Einstein “How I Created the Theory of Relativity,” Dec. 14, 1922

    2. The sun, moon, and stars tell us nothing about the shape of the earth. The sun and the moon are not habitations for life. They are lights in the sky that appear much smaller than the earth. They have no atmosphere, water/oceans, or forests. We observe them, along with the clouds and the stars, moving across the sky.

    3. The horizon line always appears straight/flat and is never curved. The horizon always rises up to our eye level regardless of how high we go. The higher we go the further into the distance we see the land and water/oceans rise up before us as a flat plane would do, we never see the earth drop away from us as we would if the earth were a globe.

    4. Everything we know about a globed earth and heliocentric universe is as "imagined" as Einstein's relative space/time universe. There exists much evidence that NASA faked the moon landings and is now faking space missions to keep us from finding out the earth is flat just as our God given senses and the Bible tell us.

    --Dave
    The various types of sundials reveal the motion of the earth by how they work: and they will not work on a flat earth model where the sun is always circling from above the supposed flat earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    The various different types of sundials reveal the motion of the earth by how they work: and they will not work on a flat-earth model.
    They work because the sun is moving. But if you think you can prove your point, go ahead.

    --Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFT_Dave View Post
    They work because the sun is moving. But if you think you can prove your point, go ahead.

    --Dave
    It was already shown in PJ's thread which is now closed.
    Research it yourself if you truly seek to understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    It was already shown in PJ's thread which is now closed.
    Research it yourself if you truly seek to understand.
    If you want to share it here please do, or link me to PJ's thread so I can look at it.

    --Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFT_Dave View Post
    This is why we are debating flat earth

    1. Experiments could not detect motion to the earth. "Soon I came to the conclusion that our idea about the motion of the Earth with respect to the ether is incorrect, if we admit Michelson’s null result as a fact. This was the first path which led me to the special theory of relativity...I have come to believe that the motion of the Earth cannot be detected by any optical experiment--Albert Einstein “How I Created the Theory of Relativity,” Dec. 14, 1922

    2. The sun, moon, and stars tell us nothing about the shape of the earth. The sun and the moon are not habitations for life. They are lights in the sky that appear much smaller than the earth. They have no atmosphere, water/oceans, or forests. We observe them, along with the clouds and the stars, moving across the sky.

    3. The horizon line always appears straight/flat and is never curved. The horizon always rises up to our eye level regardless of how high we go. The higher we go the further into the distance we see the land and water/oceans rise up before us as a flat plane would do, we never see the earth drop away from us as we would if the earth were a globe.

    4. Everything we know about a globed earth and heliocentric universe is as "imagined" as Einstein's relative space/time universe. There exists much evidence that NASA faked the moon landings and is now faking space missions to keep us from finding out the earth is flat just as our God given senses and the Bible tell us.

    --Dave
    Yep.

    Einstein rescued heliocentrism with his fantastical imaginative theory of relativity.

    I find it fascinating that Christians will fight evolutionists tooth and nail, while swallowing Copernican heliocentrism hook line and sinker.

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    Admiral Byrd Planes Crashing Into The Invisible Dome Firmament


    6 Minutes

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    The various types of sundials reveal the motion of the earth by how they work: and they will not work on a flat earth model where the sun is always circling from above the supposed flat earth.
    That flat earth model you've seen and have embedded in your head is way off the actual paths - "Circuit" of the sun on flat earth.

    It's not even close and was never meant to be. It's a basic rudimentary depiction to introduce folks that are new to the topic to show the basic concept. Try to picture in your mind what happens or what could be happening with the sun and moon in a flat earth. Supported by Psalm 19 and many other scriptures, the moon and sun have circuits to run. The sun hastens back to where he arose.

    They move and everything in the firmament moves but not the fixed, fastened, established, immovable, set, never to be moved earth that God built on foundations and pillars and God laid the CORNERSTONE thereof.
    Last edited by patrick jane; March 8th, 2018 at 09:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    Admiral Byrd Planes Crashing Into The Invisible Dome Firmament


    6 Minutes
    As we know, no country has perfected an electro-magnetic force field to this day.

    Hmmmm...... God's firmament?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFT_Dave View Post
    If you want to share it here please do, or link me to PJ's thread so I can look at it.

    --Dave
    Try to ignore what may be taken as inflammatory statements toward flat-earthers at the beginning of this video and concentrate primarily on what is said commencing from around the 14:30 minute mark onward:



    I just went and made this image file from the video:




    It is very simple: these are physical observations taken from these three different locations on the earth, all on the same day, (I cannot tell by the sound quality but I believe he means an equinox, (but may be speaking later of a solstice because he mentions December)), and the path of the sun moves in three different directions, that is, a straight line across the equator and opposing curvatures on the the two tropics. This is actually the curvature of the earth which is being revealed in the three different paths of the sun which all occur on the same day: not the sun itself moving in three different directions at the same time, (which is impossible). This is not possible on a flat earth model and the various types of sundials work for the very same reasons and in much the same way because the earth is spherical and spinning. You can theoretically place sundials at three locations on the same day, (I believe the equinoxes), on the two tropics and the equator, and they will all work properly so long as they are positioned correctly. Again these are physical observations: there is no question about these things, and they cannot work if the earth is flat and the sun is moving in a circle above a flat earth model. They only work in the heliocentric model with a spinning globe. It is all in the observations and observable realities we see from the earth even though things may not appear to be what they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Try to ignore what may be taken as inflammatory statements toward flat-earthers at the beginning of this video and concentrate primarily on what is said commencing from around the 14:30 minute mark onward:

    .
    I just told you, that flat earth model is an introduction tool and not even close to what the sun does over a flat earth. I could debunk the flat earth model you have in your mind and maybe looked at intently. I could debunk it in a 1 minute video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    That flat earth model you've seen and have embedded in your head is way off the actual paths - "Circuit" of the sun on flat earth. It's not even close and was never meant to be. It's a basic rudimentary depiction to introduce folks that are new to the topic to show the basic concept. Try to picture in your mind what happens or what could be happening with the sun and moon in a flat earth. Supported by Psalm 19 and many other scriptures, the moon and sun have circuits to run. The sun hastens back to where he arose. They move and everything in the firmament moves but not the fixed, fastened, established, immovable, set, never to be moved earth that God built on foundations and pillars and God laid the CORNERSTONE thereof.
    He can't afford to.

    He'd have to rip up part of his exegesis on Golgotha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    I just told you, that flat earth model is an introduction tool and not even close to what the sun does over a flat earth. I could debunk the flat earth model you have in your mind and maybe looked at intently. I could debunk it in a 1 minute video.
    Show me a flat earth model where sundials will work. Moreover, as I also already told you, the equinoxes do not fall on the same day all over the world. The observable equinox at Jerusalem, the true observable day of equal day and equal night, falls about four days different from what you see on world calendars. And if you found a city which is south of the equator by the same distance as Jerusalem is north of the equator, that location would be in the opposite direction on the calendar. I mentioned this to you in our discussion about the observations which are given in the Book of the Luminaries, (which, again, is not part of 1Enoch in anything found at Qumran). These physical observances reveal that the earth is a spinning globe tilted on its axis. Even the seasons are different lengths the further north or south you go from the equator: and the seasons in the south are opposite the seasons in the north, (summer and winter are opposite in the south as opposed to the north). None of this can be true on a flat earth model, and yet, all of it is explained in the heliocentric model with a spinning globe that is tilted on its axis of rotation.

    Observable Vernal Equinox this year at the Jerusalem latitude is 16 March 2018
    Sunrise to sunset: 5:48 AM to 5:47 PM (length of day = 11:59:19)
    https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/isra...usalem?month=3

    Please take a look at the chart for this section in the following link:

    Latitude Determines Day Length
    Even if day and night aren’t exactly equal on the day of the equinox, there are days when day and night are both very close to 12 hours.

    Sunrise & sunset times
    However, this date depends on the latitude, and can vary by as much as several weeks from place to place. The table shows approximate dates for when day and night are as similar as possible according to latitude.

    Approx date of "Equal Day & Night"
    Latitude March September
    60 North Mar 18 Sep 25
    55 North Mar 17 Sep 25
    50 North Mar 17 Sep 25
    45 North Mar 17 Sep 25
    40 North Mar 17 Sep 26
    35 North Mar 16 Sep 26
    30 North Mar 16 Sep 27
    25 North Mar 15 Sep 27
    20 North Mar 14 Sep 28
    15 North Mar 12 Sep 30
    10 North Mar 8 Oct 4
    5 North Feb 24 Oct 17
    Equator No equal day and night
    5 South Apr 14 Aug 29
    10 South Apr 1 Sep 10
    15 South Mar 28 Sep 14
    20 South Mar 26 Sep 16
    25 South Mar 25 Sep 17
    30 South Mar 24 Sep 18
    35 South Mar 24 Sep 19
    40 South Mar 23 Sep 19
    45 South Mar 23 Sep 19
    50 South Mar 23 Sep 20
    55 South Mar 23 Sep 20
    60 South Mar 22 Sep 20

    https://www.timeanddate.com/astronom...not-equal.html

    Please note how the observable equinoxes move in opposite directions when comparing the northern latitudes to the southern latitudes: moreover they move respectively according to the number of degrees north or south in opposite directions, for example, the true equal day equal night observable Vernal Equinox at five degrees north is 24 February on the calendar, while the true equal day equal night observable Vernal Equinox at latitude five degrees south is 14 April on the calendar. The true equal day equal night observable Autumnal Equinox at latitude five degrees north is 17 October on the calendar, while the true equal day equal night observable Autumnal Equinox at latitude five degrees south is 29 August on the calendar. Moreover the further you go from the equator, in either latitudinal direction, the further the day of equinox moves respectively in opposite directions. This again is irrefutable evidence, taken from physical and known observations, that the earth is a spinning globe traversing in an orbit around the sun. This simply cannot happen on a flat earth model. This is essentially the curvature of the earth being revealed in a calendar graph by known observations of the sun in its paths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    I just told you, that flat earth model is an introduction tool and not even close to what the sun does over a flat earth. I could debunk the flat earth model you have in your mind and maybe looked at intently. I could debunk it in a 1 minute video.
    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Show me a flat earth model where sundials will work.
    And what I mean by that is a flat earth model where sundials in multiple locations will all work the same way at the same time, with the sun supposedly circling above the earth, no matter how you say it is supposed to be circling in your model or version. The following may not be the most scientific experiment but it certainly gets the point across, it is not difficult to visualize the reality: what you see on the video front cover screen, (the two opposing sundials set at angles on a book), represent two sundials placed on opposing sides, (north and south), in two opposite locations facing the equator, on a curved surface such as that of a spherical planet earth.



    You cannot make this happen on a flat earth surface. Sundials simply will not work on a flat earth model, not the way they do on the spherical earth: for the shadows from the different sundial locations will not be the same, because the sun is simply too close in any flat earth model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    And what I mean by that is a flat earth model where sundials in multiple locations will all work the same way at the same time, with the sun supposedly circling above the earth, no matter how you say it is supposed to be circling in your model or version. The following may not be the most scientific experiment but it certainly gets the point across, it is not difficult to visualize the reality: what you see on the video front cover screen, (the two opposing sundials set at angles on a book), represent two sundials placed on opposing sides, (north and south), in two opposite locations facing the equator, on a curved surface such as that of a spherical planet earth.


    You cannot make this happen on a flat earth surface. Sundials simply will not work on a flat earth model, not the way they do on the spherical earth: for the shadows from the different sundial locations will not be the same, because the sun is simply too close in any flat earth model.
    Nope, you're simply completely misjudging the operation of the sun and moon above flat earth put out of your mind. Try to get that model with the beginner's map of flat earth. Unless you do that, you'll keep getting sidetracked like this.
    Last edited by patrick jane; April 17th, 2018 at 10:12 PM.

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