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Thread: More news from or about the Left (they're getting crazier and even more corrupted)

  1. #31
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    What facts triggered Musty, this time? These:

    But alongside these reports of discrimination, a similar – and growing – share (49%) of Muslim Americans say someone has expressed support for them because of their religion in the past year. And 55% think Americans in general are friendly toward U.S. Muslims, compared with just 14% who say they are unfriendly.

    In spite of the ongoing assault on American values by the radical right, it seems that Americans are becoming more tolerant of their Muslim neighbors, not less. Hence musty's tantrum.

    Despite the concerns and perceived challenges they face, 89% of Muslims say they are both proud to be American and proud to be Muslim. Fully eight-in-ten say they are satisfied with the way things are going in their lives. And a large majority of U.S. Muslims continue to profess faith in the American dream, with 70% saying that most people who want to get ahead can make it in America if they are willing to work hard.

    American Muslims are like the rest of us. They came here or their forebearers came here, to take part in the American Dream. They've bought into the values of America that say you can make something of yourself, if you work at it.

    Overall, eight-in-ten Muslims (82%) say they are either very concerned (66%) or somewhat concerned (16%) about extremism in the name of Islam around the world. This is similar to the percentage of the U.S. general public that shares these concerns (83%), although Muslims are more likely than U.S. adults overall to say they are very concerned about extremism in the name of Islam around the world (66% vs. 49%).


    Like other Americans, they are alarmed at extremism elsewhere and here. For good reason. Many of them came here to escape that extremism, and they are concerned about the small (and fortunately shrinking) number of lunatics who would do them harm in America. My former asst. coach fled the Middle East specifically because he wanted to be free, and believed that America is the land of opportunity. And he made good.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  2. #32
    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Turns out, America isn't one of those countries. We're talking about American Muslims who are far more liberal and tolerant than Muslims in most other nations. In fact, as you see, American Muslims are more American in their values than a lot of native-born Americans.

    There are places, like Russia, where professed Christians advocate terrible things, too.
    These WERE American Muslims that either support or "don't know if Isis is evil."
    You are going to accuse me of YOUR malady in a moment....



    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    It seems this time, BOTH of them were.
    You'll only ever catch yourself in that trap. Why? Because YOU are committed to an ideal. I'm not. There is no REASON for me not to have both eyes open here. I'm following the data, wherever it leads. I don't have a horse in this race, nor bet. I'm simply watching how it falls out and paying attention to all horses. You? Seems you have a favorite (more than seems, just being polite).
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
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    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

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    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

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    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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  4. #33
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    These WERE American Muslims that either support or "don't know if Isis is evil."
    Sounds unlikely, given the data above. Show us that.

    You'll only ever catch yourself in that trap.
    We'll know when you provide a checkable source.


    Why? Because YOU are committed to an ideal.
    So are the guys with an unreasoning hatred of Muslms. I'm committed to the American Dream, where any person can come here and make good if he works hard. Those guys peddling the fake news are committed to an ideal of an ethnically-pure America. Fortunately, they are dying out.

    I'm not.
    I would hope not.

    There is no REASON for me not to have both eyes open here.
    Odd then, that you seem to have completely missed the data concerning American Muslims.

    I'm following the data, wherever it leads. I don't have a horse in this race, nor bet.
    I do. Here's a pretty good summary:

    Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read, "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan [Muslim], the Hindoo [Hindu], and Infidel of every denomination." Thomas Jefferson
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.695eef93363a

    I'm simply watching how it falls out and paying attention to all horses. You? Seems you have a favorite (more than seems, just being polite).
    My favorite?

    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

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  6. #34
    TOL Subscriber Grosnick Marowbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Sounds unlikely, given the data above. Show us that.



    We'll know when you provide a checkable source.




    So are the guys with an unreasoning hatred of Muslms. I'm committed to the American Dream, where any person can come here and make good if he works hard. Those guys peddling the fake news are committed to an ideal of an ethnically-pure America. Fortunately, they are dying out.



    I would hope not.



    Odd then, that you seem to have completely missed the data concerning American Muslims.



    I do. Here's a pretty good summary:

    Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read, "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan [Muslim], the Hindoo [Hindu], and Infidel of every denomination." Thomas Jefferson
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.695eef93363a



    My favorite?

    Barb, your particular 'American dream' is a NIGHTMARE for most sane folks. You desire a 'Far-left liberal, socialist utopia' where the Government is HUGE and the people are tiny insects doing their masters bidding. Sound familiar, Barb?

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    TOL Legend musterion's Avatar
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    If the 2nd Amendment does not cover an AR-15, why does the 1st Amendment cover internet porn?
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

  9. #36
    TOL Subscriber Grosnick Marowbe's Avatar
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    Barb has two 'fans,' on his side; Rusha (a run-of-the-mill communist and AB, a run-of-the-mill British ne'er-do-well.)

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  11. #37
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Barbarian notes his committment to the American Dream:


    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    Barb, your particular 'American dream' is a NIGHTMARE for most sane folks.
    That's what Mussolini said about it. But you guys are a declining minority. Even most Trump supporters still believe in the Bill of Rights.

    You desire a 'Far-right ultra-conservative racist utopia' where the Government is HUGE and the people are tiny insects doing their masters bidding.

    Sound familiar, Barb?
    Yep.


    Trump says free press is "disgusting"
    Donald Trump has pledged to defend the Constitution — even an article that doesn’t exist — but he can’t seem to lay off that pesky First Amendment.

    Trump has mocked the First Amendment’s right to freedom of religion by calling for a ban on Muslims from entering the country and criticized those who believe in the freedom of speech as “foolish people.” He has also endorsed attacks on protesters and the imprisonment of people who burn the flag.

    And he has made it very clear that he doesn’t stand for the freedom of the press. As a presidential candidate, Trump told supporters he would “open up our libel laws” to sue journalists. “We’re going to have people sue you like you’ve never got sued before,” he promised.

    https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speec...ess-disgusting
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Paranoid conspiracy nuts generally aren't, for sure. Well, they can be in certain areas but not where it comes to objectivity and critical thinking skills etc.
    Now, how do either of those words above, relate to YOU, AB? The answer is, they don't.

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  15. #39
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    If the 2nd Amendment does not cover an AR-15,
    It does, just as it covers porn. But no freedom is absolute. There are (and should be) reasonable restrictions on both weapons and porn, particularly as it involves children or those who are not competent. There might be need to adjust those restrictions up or down, depending on the circumstances, but it should always be in accord with the Constitution.

    I may not like porn or people arming themselves with assault rifles, but barring some compelling public reason why they shouldn't have either, the Bill of Rights protects them.

    why does the 1st Amendment cover internet porn?
    Because it's not the purpose of government to make us good.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  16. #40
    TOL Subscriber Grosnick Marowbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Barbarian notes his committment to the American Dream:




    That's what Mussolini said about it. But you guys are a declining minority. Even most Trump supporters still believe in the Bill of Rights.

    You desire a 'Far-right ultra-conservative racist utopia' where the Government is HUGE and the people are tiny insects doing their masters bidding.



    Yep.


    Trump says free press is "disgusting"
    Donald Trump has pledged to defend the Constitution — even an article that doesn’t exist — but he can’t seem to lay off that pesky First Amendment.

    Trump has mocked the First Amendment’s right to freedom of religion by calling for a ban on Muslims from entering the country and criticized those who believe in the freedom of speech as “foolish people.” He has also endorsed attacks on protesters and the imprisonment of people who burn the flag.

    And he has made it very clear that he doesn’t stand for the freedom of the press. As a presidential candidate, Trump told supporters he would “open up our libel laws” to sue journalists. “We’re going to have people sue you like you’ve never got sued before,” he promised.

    https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speec...ess-disgusting
    Nope. Unfortunetely, you still haven't impressed 'Old GM,' Barb. Go back to the 'drawing board' or, in your case, the spider web you hang around in.

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  18. #41
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    Nope. Unfortunetely, you still haven't impressed 'Old GM,'
    Didn't intend to. You're just playing Simplicio for me. You tend to make the other side look foolish when you get upset and verbally abusive.

    Barb. Go back to the 'drawing board' or, in your case, the spider web you hang around in.
    Yeah, like that. You're really very helpful, Grosnik.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  19. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Didn't intend to. You're just playing Simplicio for me. You tend to make the other side look foolish when you get upset and verbally abusive.



    Yeah, like that. You're really very helpful, Grosnik.
    I appreciate your 'Vote of total confidence, Barb.' Unfortunately, you and your ilk cannot communicate in a NORMAL civil manner because of your 'delusional mindset,' therefore, what other alternative is there, then to try and establish the fact that, you folks are void of truth and depend on irrational generalizations, untruths, false accusations, and an inability to be intellectually honest?

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  21. #43
    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Sounds unlikely, given the data above. Show us that.



    We'll know when you provide a checkable source.




    So are the guys with an unreasoning hatred of Muslms. I'm committed to the American Dream, where any person can come here and make good if he works hard. Those guys peddling the fake news are committed to an ideal of an ethnically-pure America. Fortunately, they are dying out.



    I would hope not.



    Odd then, that you seem to have completely missed the data concerning American Muslims.
    You 'cannot' find a more reputable source than Pew Research. Sorry.


    I do.
    An Arabian, by chance?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Here's a pretty good summary:

    Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read, "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan [Muslim], the Hindoo [Hindu], and Infidel of every denomination." Thomas Jefferson
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.695eef93363a



    My favorite?

    So, one-eye closed

    You CANNOT accuse me of having an eye closed when you are the one betting on horses.

    You'll never sell me 'Arabians are best!' I'm just not as vested or interested. All the horses race from where I sit. I can enjoy watching them all without getting caught in the 'mine is best' cattle-calls.

    My concern was 'if' a certain pew research result reported accurately what a large majority of Muslims believe. With BOTH eyes open, I can compare. With one eyes closed to 'certain data' that'd not be true. You can brag all you like that you are a TRUE horse-race enthusiast. I'll not be marginalized by pirate patches. My eye-sight is better than ANY one-eye. Data is data is data and I have no reason not to follow these WHEREVER they lead. Truth is whatever the data points to and I'll accept it. You? Seems you don't care what half of it says. That's your horse, your race.
    Last edited by Lon; March 9th, 2018 at 06:58 PM.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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  23. #44
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    You 'cannot' find a more reputable source than Pew Research.
    Right. So why don't you think they are telling the truth?

    (Barbarian admits he is committed to the Constitution)

    So, one-eye closed
    Some statists would say so. But I'm pretty sure they're wrong.

    You CANNOT accuse me of having an eye closed when you are the one betting on horses.
    Lon, everyone has biases. The key is that as the Founders pointed out, a free nation tends to be safer and happier than any alternative.

    My concern was 'if' a certain pew research result reported accurately what a large majority of Muslims believe.
    They just happen to be more reliable than many other sources. It's consistent with other polling data.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  24. #45
    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post

    Lon, everyone has biases.
    I'm happy wherever the actual data points. Maybe 'happy' isn't the right word, but it is all I'm really interested in. Whatever view the Muslim populace of America holds, I want to know what the actuality is. I don't really care much about dueling opine, deciduous or other.

    Whether Muslims or just 'like me' or not isn't closed down by anecdote. I DO know that anything not "Christian" is unequivocally wrong. Muslim may well be better than "atheist." I do want to weigh it all without a wave off. It doesn't help that I hold most liberal perspective suspect already, however. I know a lot of liberals hate being declared unchristian and unpatriotic. The fact is, 'if' a liberal is behind the devil-ution of American values (and they are), then they really are demon-strably anti-traditional American values and Christian principles. If one is anti-Christ, we are 'supposed' to be opposed. I'm not looking for a cookie cutter BUT diversity "at-expense-of" fully Christian values?

    *Demonizing not but to show that often these are very important discussions. Life and death, right and wrong, black and white. Marginalizing is fine, I'm up for that war if push comes to shove because the push/shove is against that wall already.

    Quick question: Do you believe, one day, that Jesus is going to judge and that ONLY one way is the correct one? How dedicated are you to HIS regime? How does such affect our politics? Should it? In the world and of it, or but not of it?

    Any liberal or moderate who believes he/she stands before his/her Savior must account. "If" a moderate or liberal ever had an indictment against a conservative Christian, before the Lord Jesus Christ, he/she has been horrible about bringing these before the judgement seat. The seat definitely looks hotter for the liberal and moderate than a conservative. I've seen too much 'liberal' Christian behavior to believe that will ever go the other way. I've known way too many and wonder if they are Christian, let alone in church-good-standing. You know we have a good number on TOL so can't contest numbers as far as I'm concerned.

    I hope there is a lot here to think on. -Lon
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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