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Thread: More news from or about the Left (they're getting crazier and even more corrupted)

  1. #76
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    (Barbarian notes that Jesus said to love our enemies, and admits that is his objective)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    No? But someone with a true heart for God, it WILL help. I'm sorry about your admission. It isn't a good reflection upon you.
    Jesus thinks it is. And that is what matters to me.

    You SHOULD have joined me in saying you genuinely care about people that die.
    You SHOULD have admitted that we are told to love our enemies. As you know, I pointed out that the key concern is how many people die and the likelihood of future deaths should guide our actions. It's a shame that you didn't agree. You really should have. I'm guessing that because it didn't fit your narrative, you didn't want to talk about it.

    (Barbarian takes Lon to task for again trying to conflate American Muslims with Muslims in other countries)

    Again, in EVERY country where the Muslim is in control, CHRISTIANS (you don't love us, do you?)
    Aren't you claiming to be a Christian? Jesus said that the world would hate us, and many of you do. Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" is one of us, but rather those who do the will of the Father.


    I already told you the point of that story. The 'Samaritan' is incidental to the story. It is NOT a story about Samaritans. It was the story about a "JEW" who was beat up. It was a story TO another JEW to do the right thing because "Even if a despised Samaritan knows to do the right thing, you a Jew, should know it better."
    You missed His point, then. It wasn't "it's good to help out those in need." It was "go do as the Samaritan did, not as the two Jews did." It was in the context of "who is my neighbor?" Jesus said that the Samaritan got it, but the Jews did not. And then he told them to emulate the Samaritan. It was a deliberately provocative choice of characters just for that purpose.

    You have an obsession with 'wrong' religions, an obsession that Jesus actively discouraged. "Why are you talking to me? Jews don't speak to Samaritans."

    He treated that woman no differently than He would have treated a Jewish person. Learn from Him.

    The Samaritans, frankly, were wrong. So are Muslims.
    So are Jews. So are you. You're just a little less wrong.

    They are NOT your friend.
    I've yet to have a Muslim or Jew act as aggressively offensive about my Christian faith as you have. And you're supposed to be a Christian.

    Instead of seeking doctrinal perfection, first seek the Kingdom of God. And then you will have it. As Jesus pointed out, the Samaritan may not have said "Lord, Lord", but he did the will of the Father. You should think of that, and reflect on what it means for you.

    (Stuff about John Lennon, burning bras, judges upholding the Bill of Rights, and other things Lon finds objectionable)


    You're starting to wander. Focus. And let Him be God. Listen and try to emulate Jesus. You can't go wrong, if you do that.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  2. #77
    TOL Legend musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Jesus thinks it is. And that is what matters to me.
    Your Jesus doesn't exist. It's a corpse hanging on a crucifix that lets you eat him in biscuit form but can't fully save you until after you're dead. Maybe.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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  4. #78
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Your Jesus doesn't exist.
    He's alive and with us now. Sorry about your god. Maybe you'd be better off learning about the real One.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  5. #79
    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    (Barbarian notes that Jesus said to love our enemies, and admits that is his objective)

    Jesus thinks it is. And that is what matters to me.
    No He doesn't. I showed you, clearly, you were wrong. Scripture does say love your enemy and do good to them. That DOESN'T mean vetting a Nazi. Are YOU into that? You will have to use a LOT more scriptures to convince me. Go ahead. I'm listening.




    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    You SHOULD have admitted that we are told to love our enemies. As you know, I pointed out that the key concern is how many people die and the likelihood of future deaths should guide our actions. It's a shame that you didn't agree. You really should have. I'm guessing that because it didn't fit your narrative, you didn't want to talk about it.
    NOT if it means you sacrifice children to Molech. That is NOT love, Barbarian. Loving the enemy doesn't mean I have to have them in my country. What principle on God's green earth could POSSIBLY make you think that is the ONLY viable love option???? Again, I'll take 'smart' and intelligent love over stupidity or evil in 'feigned' disguise. Love is NOT defined by John Lennon. It is defined by and specifically, by the nature, character, and demands of God. Alone. YOU, Barbarian, have a VERY hard time knowing the difference between Nazis and Germans by the same token. You really don't seem to be gifted with enlightenment or understanding in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    (Barbarian takes Lon to task for again trying to conflate American Muslims with Muslims in other countries)
    No. You didn't. You might as well try making your own theme song. YOU, BARBARIAN ALREADY put this part of the debate to rest. You ALREADY told us one in every 3 attacks WILL be by those, born in America LEARNING Islam. GUARANTEED it even. YOU. BARBARIAN did that! YOU DID.

    Now, in your wild imagination you think you are going to take me to task for a 'conflation?' Sad. You can't even take yourself to task over it. It'd look neurotic.



    Aren't you claiming to be a Christian? Jesus said that the world would hate us, and many of you do.
    Not sure if you know how this question this is supposed to work. I realize others have called you on the carpet for not being a Christian. I otoh have given you every opportunity to declare Him. "Many of you nonChristians do hate us" isn't helpful. The pope declared me a brother in error already so that ship, too has sailed. Why 'try' to marginalize me? What is the point of that kind of posturing?

    Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" is one of us, but rather those who do the will of the Father.
    Let me say this again. The will of the Father is NOT to take sides with evil men BUT OPPOSE them. If you make your bed IMAGINING with John Lennon, that is exactly what that is. You might as well say: "I love Al Capone, but I hate you." The Lord Jesus Christ said you CANNOT serve two masters. He THEN said YOU WILL LOVE ONE AND HATE THE OTHER!!!!. The Lord Jesus Christ did. The Lord Jesus Christ said that. Read it again, Barbarian. "IF" your love is undiscerning THEN (necessarily), your LOVE is two-faced and the Lord Jesus Christ is saying, VERY clearly, right here: That's a lie! "You, Barbarian, CANNOT serve two masters. You WILL love one AND WILL hate the other. No wiggle room. NO room for error. Wake up. Here is your scripture. Here is your sign. You 'can' love your enemy WITHOUT deferring to their wicked whims. I SUGGEST strongly, that you do so ELSE it is not loving. LEARN the difference between a person born in the Middle East AND someone evil. There IS a difference. A HUGE difference. Matthew 10:16 the Lord Jesus Christ's words. MEMORIZE them. Don't let John Lennon be your guru. LET JESUS be your guru. John Lennon told you to imagine God didn't exist. Don't listen to him. That is NOT love.




    You missed His point, then. It wasn't "it's good to help out those in need." It was "go do as the Samaritan did, not as the two Jews did." It was in the context of "who is my neighbor?" Jesus said that the Samaritan got it, but the Jews did not. And then he told them to emulate the Samaritan. It was a deliberately provocative choice of characters just for that purpose.
    It could just as easily been a 'gentile' which they also despised. The point again was 'love AMONG Jews.' The one who was 'loving' was the one 'doing' the loving. It was a call on what is really in our hearts. I'm VERY convinced a lover of God will also be a lover of people. There is no question. What IS a question is whether it is better to 'enable' a criminal to do a crime or not. Think: Is it MORE loving to put a murderer in prison OR to let him go and hope for the best? Imho, the former. Putting him in prison does no harm. In fact, he will come in contact with pastors and other godly people in prison.

    You are suggesting we vet those who adhere to a faith that WILL result in one of every 3 attacks. No question. You are saying, somehow, THAT is the loving thing to do. You even suggested 'it isn't likely they will be 'your' children. Sorry. Love is not screaming to me from the page. It even looks irresponsible and passing the buck to me. That isn't loving. AT LEAST, pass of something that LOOKS LIKE LOVE, as love.

    You have an obsession with 'wrong' religions, an obsession that Jesus actively discouraged. "Why are you talking to me? Jews don't speak to Samaritans."
    You are going to have to be a lot clearer. John 14:6 came to mind but this isn't said well. Where do I show an 'obsession' with wrong religions? Are you suggesting I'm wrong? Stuck on wrong? You just aren't careful and very unclear by accusation. Be a LOT clearer.

    He treated that woman no differently than He would have treated a Jewish person. Learn from Him.
    He talked to her, sure. I didn't say you couldn't 'talk' to a Muslim. I said you SHOULDN'T vet one unless they leave Islam behind. THAT is what I said. You are trying to say that vetting a Muslim can be the ONLY Godly thing. Nope. You CAN'T show that! It isn't true. Simple as that.



    So are Jews. So are you. You're just a little less wrong.
    Er, no. I have a whole body behind 'my' theology. It isn't just me and no, I'm not a little wrong by that token. There isn't just one way to show love and 'vetting' certainly isn't the one if there were. You weren't listening to Jesus. He told the Samaritan, point blank: You worship what you do NOT know. WE JEWS worship what we DO know. See? YOU are wrong. I'm right. That's how that works, right there. But I'm hopeful you can be taught.



    I've yet to have a Muslim or Jew act as aggressively offensive about my Christian faith as you have.
    Ahem. BECAUSE THEY DON'T care! I do.

    And you're supposed to be a Christian.
    AND because of that, you bet. I WILL speak with you aggressively. YOU have a weird idea about what love is. You think it is being cavalier and 'unconcerned????' Think again, mate. You have a few things to learn about 'Christian' love. It requires you be intelligent, not just 'what feels good' or 'right.' Love is work. Do it right. Take it right too.

    Instead of seeking doctrinal perfection, first seek the Kingdom of God.
    I hate to have to perpetually correct you, but seeking doctrinal perfection and seeking the kingdom of God is the same goal.

    And then you will have it. As Jesus pointed out, the Samaritan may not have said "Lord, Lord", but he did the will of the Father. You should think of that, and reflect on what it means for you.
    YOU missed the lesson. By the same token, "John Lennon wasn't right and I'm wrong." That is NOT intelligent thinking, Barbarian. He 'corrected' the Samaritan. They were half Jew, half pagans. Because, very specifically, they disobeyed God, they were left to their own devices and without God because they rejected Judah. Granted Judah was horrible at the time, but they were told already, by Samuel, that they would have to pay the piper. When it came to pay, they disobediently said 'no.' Because of that, they became 'despised' by Jews. The POINT of the story was simply this: It doesn't matter who 'does' they right thing, the one who 'does' the right thing is the one 'doing the right thing' not just talking about it. You've allowed yourself to become confused that this is a story about 'loving Samaritans.' AND you have been a poor student for it. You DIDN'T get the right message. The man who 'needed' love was the focus. The one who then 'loves' was His focus. It 'happened' to be a Samaritan, but this was NO embrace of 'Samaritanism" (not really a religion). If that is what you thought, you blew it and need to go back to Sunday School. "Samaritan" has little to do with the story. The Lord Jesus Christ was just saying 'pagans who love, love better than 'chosen people who do not.' THAT, my friend, is the point of the story.

    (Stuff about John Lennon, burning bras, judges upholding the Bill of Rights, and other things Lon finds objectionable)
    Nice how you try and sneek 'Bill of Rights' in there. Did I 'hit' a nerve with bras and John Lennon? You'll have to try and be genuine and authentic instead of forgettable and snarky. Debate 'tactics' employed for no 'good' reason are seen for being plastic and fake. Don't do them. They just make one look insincere, plastic, and fake.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    You're starting to wander. Focus. And let Him be God. Listen and try to emulate Jesus. You can't go wrong, if you do that.
    You can't fake sincerity or meaningful. Here is a thought: Just forgo feeling a need. Your post was 'better' without 'that's all there is to say' or 'you are starting to wander.'

    Nope. I'm not. Fact. Just leave your last words your last words. There should be no pressure to post odd little wrap ups that make no contribution. Neither 'That's all there is to say' nor "You are wandering" do anything good for you or me. Just don't say them. They don't need to be said. -Lon
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

  6. #80
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Barbarian observes:
    No He (Jesus) doesn't. I showed you, clearly, you were wrong. Scripture does say love your enemy and do good to them.

    (Godwin's law strikes again)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    That DOESN'T mean vetting a Nazi.
    You want to vet Nazis? Where did that come from? Another straw man, um?

    NOT if it means you sacrifice children to Molech.
    And another one. You brought a lot of straw with you today.

    (random stuff from Lon about John Lennon and Germans being Nazis)

    You're losing focus, again.

    Not sure if you know how this question this is supposed to work. I realize others have called you on the carpet for not being a Christian.
    It seems to be a favorite ploy on the far right. No one cares what you think now. If you're a Christian, you're not doing a very good job of following Him. Sometimes, I don't either. But I try my best. And that is what He asks me to do.

    1 Corinthians 10:13 Let no temptation take hold on you, but such as is human. And God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that which you are able: but will make also with temptation issue, that you may be able to bear it.

    I otoh have given you every opportunity to declare Him.
    I notice you've avoided declaring him. So let's get that out of the way. This is what Christians believe:

    I believe in God, the Father almighty,
    creator of heaven and earth.
    I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
    who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
    born of the Virgin Mary,
    suffered under Pontius Pilate,
    was crucified, died, and was buried;
    he descended to the dead.
    On the third day he rose again;
    he ascended into heaven,
    he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
    and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
    I believe in the Holy Spirit,
    the holy catholic Church,
    the communion of saints,
    the forgiveness of sins,
    the resurrection of the body,
    and the life everlasting. Amen


    So just tell me that you believe this, and we'll know that you are indeed with Him. Will you do it?

    "Many of you nonChristians do hate us" isn't helpful.
    You can settle that by verifying that you believe what Christians believe. Will you?

    The pope declared me a brother in error already so that ship, too has sailed.
    Let's take a look...

    The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honoured by the name of Christian, but who do not however profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.[14] For there are many who hold sacred scripture in honour as a rule of faith and of life, who have a sincere religious zeal, who lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and the Saviour,[15] who are sealed by baptism which unites them to Christ, and who indeed recognize and receive other sacraments in their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them possess the episcopate, celebrate the holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion of the Virgin Mother of God.[16] There is furthermore a sharing in prayer and spiritual benefits; these Christians are indeed in some real way joined to us in the Holy Spirit for, by his gifts and graces, his sanctifying power is also active in them and he has strengthened some of them even to the shedding of their blood.
    DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH - LUMEN GENTIUM
    Promulgated By His Holiness, Pope Paul VI on November 21, 1964

    Why 'try' to marginalize me? What is the point of that kind of posturing?
    Now, you seem to realize that it was a bad idea to even bring that up, um? Just affirm the faith and then everyone will know.

    Let me say this again. The will of the Father is NOT to take sides with evil men BUT OPPOSE them.
    I can oppose people without hating them or even thinking that they are evil. They are, after all, my neighbors.

    (random stuff about John Lennon and Al Capone)

    If you serve Jesus, then you need to accept that even your enemies are your neighbors, and you need to love them. If you can't do that, you are serving a different master.

    This obviously troubles you a great deal. And a lot of what you've written is confused and wanders off into other things. Let Jesus be Lord, and it will cease to trouble you.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  7. #81
    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Barbarian observes:
    No He (Jesus) doesn't. I showed you, clearly, you were wrong. Scripture does say love your enemy and do good to them.
    That'd be 'Lon' states. If you 'observed' this would have been the whole:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    No He doesn't. I showed you, clearly, you were wrong. Scripture does say love your enemy and do good to them. That DOESN'T mean vetting a Nazi. Are YOU into that? You will have to use a LOT more scriptures to convince me. Go ahead. I'm listening.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    (Godwin's law strikes again)
    Er, YOU brought up Hitler first
    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Alt-Reich: Nation.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    (... fans of Hitler
    SURPRISED? Who cares about Godwin's law? Are YOU a Godwin fan?


    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    You want to vet Nazis? Where did that come from? Another straw man, um?
    YOU! It came from YOU!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Alt-Reich: Nation.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    (... fans of Hitler


    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    And another one. You brought a lot of straw with you today.

    (random stuff from Lon about John Lennon and Germans being Nazis)

    You're losing focus, again.
    Er, ONE of us is losing.... Ahem
    Go figure trying to elicit ANY love for Jesus or fellow Christians from you would get this kind of heartless and frankly mindless accusation.

    Don't forget, I told you 'if' you are a heartless nonChristian, I'd give you problems for it on TOL, and I will. "IF" you are going to claim the name of Christ, I EXPECT Christian and will hold you to accounts. If you don't love the Lord Jesus Christ, just say so. Enough of this inane 'debate ploy.' I detest it. It is BENEATH Christians who say they love Jesus. Either stop or I'll HELP you stop it. We are definitely going to see who does and doesn't love the Lord Jesus Christ. That would be the goal, I'd hope, for either of us.



    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    It seems to be a favorite ploy on the far right. No one cares what you think now. If you're a Christian, you're not doing a very good job of following Him. Sometimes, I don't either. But I try my best. And that is what He asks me to do.
    No! Stop it! "IF" I bring up loving Him, it IS because I expect loving Him to be the goal. 1) First I appreciate the verse. 2) I said I realized others did say that but it by NO MEANS invited you to try and grade my Christianity for me. Just because 'you' don't like it doesn't mean I'm not doing a good job. Sorry, that ship ain't gonna sail. Now take your medicine. Nobody BUT somebody that cares is going to give it to you. I don't CARE if a Muslim hasn't said such things to you. It doesn't make him/her a good guy. Not at all. It doesn't mean they love you. STOP equating 'letting me do whatever I want with no reprise' as love. No, Barbarian. No I have not been unloving toward you. You are being two-faced also. You are calling me on the carpet, saying I do a lousy job and in the NEXT breath trying to tell me YOU work on it. If you are trying, try a little harder

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    1 Corinthians 10:13 Let no temptation take hold on you, but such as is human. And God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that which you are able: but will make also with temptation issue, that you may be able to bear it.
    Good verse. Not sure of the context for it.



    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    I notice you've avoided declaring him.
    Poor choice of words and accusation.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    So let's get that out of the way.

    This is what Christians believe:

    I believe in God, the Father almighty,
    creator of heaven and earth.
    I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
    who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
    born of the Virgin Mary,
    suffered under Pontius Pilate,
    was crucified, died, and was buried;
    he descended to the dead.
    On the third day he rose again;
    he ascended into heaven,
    he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
    and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
    I believe in the Holy Spirit,
    the holy catholic Church,
    the communion of saints,
    the forgiveness of sins,
    the resurrection of the body,
    and the life everlasting. Amen


    So just tell me that you believe this, and we'll know that you are indeed with Him. Will you do it?
    Yes. I hold to the Creed.



    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    You can settle that by verifying that you believe what Christians believe. Will you?
    Not sure why you asked the same thing the same way. Yes, I affirm the creed.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Let's take a look...
    Uh oh. So I have to agree to YOUR interpretation of it? I 'might' but as you say, let's see

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honoured by the name of Christian, but who do not however profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.[14] For there are many who hold sacred scripture in honour as a rule of faith and of life, who have a sincere religious zeal, who lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and the Saviour,[15] who are sealed by baptism which unites them to Christ, and who indeed recognize and receive other sacraments in their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them possess the episcopate, celebrate the holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion of the Virgin Mother of God.[16] There is furthermore a sharing in prayer and spiritual benefits; these Christians are indeed in some real way joined to us in the Holy Spirit for, by his gifts and graces, his sanctifying power is also active in them and he has strengthened some of them even to the shedding of their blood.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH - LUMEN GENTIUM
    Promulgated By His Holiness, Pope Paul VI on November 21, 1964
    Why then, did you say "I" persecute you and place me as a nonbeliever?



    Now, you seem to realize that it was a bad idea to even bring that up, um?
    YOU brought it up AGAINST me!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post

    Aren't you claiming to be a Christian? Jesus said that the world would hate us, and many of you do.

    Just affirm the faith and then everyone will know.
    Third time a charm? I affirm the creed.



    I can oppose people without hating them or even thinking that they are evil. They are, after all, my neighbors.
    That is fine. It does NOT mean you have to vet criminal behavior. You CAN be a good neighbor without doing that (more now in a second):

    (random stuff about John Lennon and Al Capone)
    See? They may be 'neighbors' but loving them does NOT demand you vet them.

    If you serve Jesus, then you need to accept that even your enemies are your neighbors, and you need to love them. If you can't do that, you are serving a different master.
    GREAT! That does NOT mean giving them your child to murder! THAT wouldn't be loving. It may ALSO mean you say 'no' when they ask to enter your country. That too is NOT an unloving thing.

    This obviously troubles you a great deal. And a lot of what you've written is confused and wanders off into other things.
    No, it really doesn't. I've called you on your own problematic conveyances. I'm a LOT less lazy than you, however. I've figured out a few of your intents. That's what a caring guy does. A GOOD academic ALSO tries to not blame another for his/her own lack in reading retention.
    Simply re-reading you, and a few things are clear. If not, I've asked you. You? Petty and the lesser man for it I told you, I KNOW what my ability is and know what I've conveyed and have not. Better than you too, more than obviously. It means: TRY HARDER. You are simply trying to one-up me again. You can't. Stop it.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Let Jesus be Lord, and it will cease to trouble you.
    He IS Lord. There is no 'let' Him be. He already is, even 'if' someone doesn't want Him to be. Won't work: Colossians 1:17 John 15:5

    Again, think more before trying to come up with a closer statement. Most of the time they aren't needed. -Lon
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    That'd be 'Lon' states. If you 'observed' this would have been the whole:


    Er, YOU brought up Hitler first

    (Barbarian checks) Nope. You were the one who brought up vetting Hitler. And John Lennon, and all sorts of other stuff for whatever reason. Focus.

    Er, ONE of us is losing....
    If you didn't see this as a contest, you would not be losing.


    Yes. I hold to the Creed.
    Then you are one of us.

    It does NOT mean you have to vet criminal behavior.

    Of course we have to. If we don't, criminals get in. Hence, the vetting for all immigrants. This is the real reason that a more realistic immigration policy makes sense.

    See? They may be 'neighbors' but loving them does NOT demand you vet them.
    Perhaps you don't know what "vet" means in that context. It doesn't mean we let anyone in.

    (random stuff about child murderers)

    I'm pleased that you seem to now accept that American Muslims are no more inclined to terrorism than other Americans, and you seem to have researched enough to realize that no Syrian refugees from ISIS have committed acts of terror in the United States. So we're making progress.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  9. #83
    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    (Barbarian checks) Nope. You were the one who brought up vetting Hitler. And John Lennon, and all sorts of other stuff for whatever reason. Focus.
    You can't even be honest? I QUOTED you!
    I did bring up John Lennon, but only for his poor example. There are a LOT of kids, liberals, enamored and several commercial pushes with "Imagine" as the theme song and intent.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    If you didn't see this as a contest, you would not be losing.
    You are a weirdo. YOU both mentioned and repeated this. Just like 'Hitler' I have likewise responded. Try not to make your thoughts 'my' thoughts. You mentioned losing. You mentioned Hitler. I merely acquiesced both times.




    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Then you are one of us.
    I'm not sure any one creed makes us belong to the Lord Jesus. Remember James? "So does Satan." His point was that even the Devil believes the character of God. Here is a question (sincerely): Do you think Satan believes the creed? I don't think he doubts one iota of it. All I am saying is, there MUST be more to it than that. Agree? It has to be or the Lord Jesus Christ wouldn't have said He will say "Depart from me. I NEVER knew you." These are people that 'think' they know the Lord Jesus Christ and, if like the Creed, they probably do, but the real measure is rather 'if' the Lord Jesus Christ knows us/them. At least, to me, it seems it MUST be something more than the creed.




    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Of course we have to. If we don't, criminals get in. Hence, the vetting for all immigrants. This is the real reason that a more realistic immigration policy makes sense.
    Hold on... You are agreeing with me? I think this is an important thing to have said a few pages back. We were discussing 'smart' love vs 'not so great.' The reason a bleeding heart liberal gets 'bleeding heart' isn't because his heart isn't bleeding, it is because he/she is being accused of not 'thinking' just bleeding. If you agree with me, then your heart can bleed, but intelligently. That said, you'd be more conservative on this as well. However that plays out, if democrats become better thought than simply emoting, that'd be a good thing. Let me ask another question (sincerely): Do you guys own the kids marching in the streets these days? IOW, are they 'liberals' in your mind? Do they 'belong' to your values and as such identity? Is it more democratic? OR are these kids a new definition of something else? It is a 'little' off the beaten path of your and my specific conversation, but it is in line with the OP. Musterion is bringing up 'liberal' problems so, for me, it would be helpful to know (if you are any kind of spokesman for the liberal agenda). If not, just let me know that too. They are learning and discovery questions. We really don't hear much from liberals, just liberal media. Of course they may well be the voice of liberals including the embrace of these wayward kids marching in the streets and such may well be fostered by liberal teachers then college professors later.



    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Perhaps you don't know what "vet" means in that context. It doesn't mean we let anyone in.
    I do know. I have NOT thought democrats know. Why? Because liberals and democrats want to 'vet' illegal Mexicans. By YOUR same token, that too is NOT vetting properly. These aren't and weren't the stellar Mexican citizens or they'd never have circumvented our laws to begin with. That said, Australia wound up being much less than criminal so it doesn't always go bad. I just think we need to be thoughtful about it. Again, you are acquiescing something that you 'seemed' to be against the last couple of pages. I'm happy about it, but it looks a lot less like 'disagreement.' When we first came in, Musterion had been giving data and in my mind 'vetting' is the only real thing any of us can do about Muslims, politically. I think spiritually, we can do much (as it seems you do as well). I suppose contrast is really good, so I'm not displeased over the last few pages, but I think if there is/were a lot of agreement, that too would have been a good thing right off the bat. I mean, how better to respond to a thread like this than "I Barbarian, as a liberal, agree with you, Musterion. Perhaps I'm not 'liberal' on this point for it. "

    To me, that would have gone a long ways. If congress could do the same. If liberal media could do the same. The us/them partisan isn't helpful if we really can meet minds on some of this. Who better to start such than you or I? Maybe it is 'how' we go about vetting from here. I probably shouldn't be encouraged by any bipartisan sentiment. I'm probably TOO much of an optimist (I'm no great politician, by admission).

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    (random stuff about child murderers)
    It is NOT random, NOR wandering. It is about the vetting process and whether we do it intelligently OR without a thought to that 1/3 statistic you gave. Look, I agree with you that it isn't likely 'my' particular kids will be on the receiving end of bad. They may even be at greater risk from a shark attack (if so, we need to ban surfing THEN worry about banning guns). If you are a spokesman for the liberal agenda, you can speak up from some of these concerns. They ARE thread concerns, thus not at all random. I have a VERY hard time understanding that you aren't making the connections. They are connected to 'consequences' between liberal and conservative thought and policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    I'm pleased that you seem to now accept that American Muslims are no more inclined to terrorism than other Americans, and you seem to have researched enough to realize that no Syrian refugees from ISIS have committed acts of terror in the United States. So we're making progress.
    We 'might' meet a bit, but I think this is jumping too far ahead on actuals. There is a difference between the liberal and conservative agenda. While I am not Republican, I am conservative by most counts. Data is data, but how we address such is equally important. I DO know that many of the Syrians were/are Christians (I'm thinking of churches that vetted them in Canada for instance). For me, the break down is as important. -Lon
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

  10. #84
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    You can't even be honest? I QUOTED you!
    (Barbarian checks) Nope. Never said anything about vetting Hitler. That was yours.

    I did bring up John Lennon
    That was weird. I have no idea why you pulled him into a discussion of why American Muslims are pretty much like other Americans, or why we haven't had one terrorist attack from a Syrian refugee.

    You are a weirdo.
    Until now, I never thought you were. But you were the only one who made this about winning or losing. It's why things are hard for you.

    I'm not sure any one creed makes us belong to the Lord Jesus.
    It makes us Christian. But Christians fail, just like other people.

    Remember James? "So does Satan."
    James wasn't talking about being a Christian, he was talking about salvation. And he correctly points out that one is justified by works as well as by faith.

    Here is a question (sincerely): Do you think Satan believes the creed?
    As someone wrote, Satan is a brilliant idiot. He does not realize the majesty of God, which is why he supposed that rebellion against God might succeed.

    All I am saying is, there MUST be more to it than that. Agree?
    Yes, if faith alone were sufficient, Jesus would not have said that one would have to do the will of the Father to enter Heaven.

    Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

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    I'm clearly not making you better, Lon. I'm making you worse. So I'm going to let you have the last word, and you can be done with it.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

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    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    (Barbarian checks) Nope. Never said anything about vetting Hitler. That was yours.
    You are being TOO pedantic. You mentioned both alt Reich and Hitler. Point? You brought it all up. If you WANT to talk about Godwin's law, you'd have to point THAT finger at yourself. Me? Don't really care. I don't really care to talk about Alt Reich, Hitler or too much about John Lennon either, seeing how I'm not liberal.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    That was weird. I have no idea why you pulled him into a discussion of why American Muslims are pretty much like other Americans, or why we haven't had one terrorist attack from a Syrian refugee.
    You MAY not be as liberal as others are? It is worth a spin, especially when you've said you aren't liberal on a few other avenues either. MAYBE there is bad blood prior to my entrance, but I was more concerned with the liberal agenda. You 'seemed' to espouse it and even said you were mostly liberal BUT to me, after reasoning, it looks like you support Trump and Republicans with 'intelligent thoughtful vetting.' MAYBE we don't have much to argue over at such a point.



    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Until now, I never thought you were. But you were the only one who made this about winning or losing. It's why things are hard for you.
    AGAIN, that was you. It was also you that brought up Hitler. The ONLY thing I've brought up without you was John Lennon. He is just the swan singer of the liberal party.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    It makes us Christian. But Christians fail, just like other people.
    I disagree. Two posts ago you mentioned trusting the Sovereignty of God. Romans 14:4



    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    James wasn't talking about being a Christian, he was talking about salvation. And he correctly points out that one is justified by works as well as by faith.
    Er, 'justified' in this sense isn't salvation. It is a 'faith' that is justified. I'm not Catholic so we won't see eye-to-eye on this particular. The 5 solas are important for disagreement.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    As someone wrote, Satan is a brilliant idiot. He does not realize the majesty of God, which is why he supposed that rebellion against God might succeed.
    Agreement. Who wrote that, btw? (don't give it to much effort if you can't remember, just interested me and thanks).



    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Yes, if faith alone were sufficient, Jesus would not have said that one would have to do the will of the Father to enter Heaven.
    Well we disagree between Protestants and Catholics, but I think it worth the extra thought that those who thought they were doing good things, Jesus never knew. IOW, works weren't sufficient. If we were to take THAT away from James, we'd be wrong. These WERE doing things they thought were right. Important note: I don't agree with all Protestants over James (nor Catholics by one token): I don't believe works are at ALL necessary 'for' salvation, and I don't believe James said ANYTHING about it being a salvation point either. Rather, and disagreeing with others who discount James as written at all to gentiles: I understand James as saying that belief and salvation are always accompanied by the indwelling of the Lord Jesus Christ, thus the outcome WILL be fruit. I realize James' wording is somewhat different than that but this does fit the text imho. Nevertheless, It isn't the Catholic or most Protestant's position concerning James, it is just what I particularly believe. While I'm adamant, it may not be worth someone's time because it doesn't reflect necessarily, everybody else's theology position over the matter. For whatever that is worth. -Lon

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
    Matthew 7:22 According to both verses, 'works' neither. So neither 'Lord Lord' NOR 'good works, in and of themselves. NEITHER.

    Rather, 'Father's will.'Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock.

    From the first of the chapter, His words aren't 'works.' Rather Matthew 7:1, not being judgmental, 7:6 don't cast your pearls 7:7 seek all things from God etc: "Father's Will."

    Ephesians 2:10 assures that 'works' are God's works in a believers life. It is one subsumed by God only that CAN produce works. Thus, my understanding of James is works, but NOT James' works or your or my works: God's works. Philippians 2:13
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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