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Thread: Where Does It Say In The Bible That You Go Directly To Heaven When You Die?

  1. #196
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    I'm pretty sure I didn't say this.
    Jerry is know to misquote TOL members-that is his MO.
    Saint John W

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    Over 1500 post club Derf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    In Psychology there are the concepts of Id, Ego, and Superego.
    When we try to match these to what the Bible says about the soul and spirit, it appears that the Ego is the soul, the Id is the spirit, and the Superego is the knowledge of good and evil.
    The Ego/soul is the part that is the self.
    Thanks, but I'm not sure what to do with that information.
    Paul's "in the body" or "out of body" experience seems to be like what John experienced in Revelation when he was shown when he was "in the Spirit".
    So, if John was "in the spirit" and Paul was, too, then is it possible that we could be "in the spirit" in heaven when we are asleep/dead?

    Some have suggested that Paul's OOB experience was when he was left for dead in Lystra. If that's the case, do you think it gives some evidence for a spiritual awareness in heaven when the body is dead?

  3. #198
    Over 1500 post club Derf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    I just can't imagine why Paul would allude to being "naked" in that chapter if there is no such thing as being without a body.

    If Paul's words about being naked are not speaking of a Christian being without a body then they must have another meaning.

    What is that meaning?
    I'm not ruling out the possibility that there is a naked state. What I'm saying is that it is an undesirable state, according to Paul.

    There is also the strange idea that we meet Jesus in heaven when we die, and then we meet Him in the air when He returns. How is it that we meet Him twice?

  4. #199
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Thus, I conclude, quite brilliantly, in extreme humility, that pre-fall, Adam and Eve had spiritual bodies of flesh and bone, "energized" by the Spirit of God, that did not require the life sustaining
    properties of blood, as we have now.
    Let me get this straight, great one. When Adam and Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil their hearts starting beating and began to supply blood to their bodies?

    Did their bodies change in any other way when that ate of that tree?

  5. #200
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    I'm not ruling out the possibility that there is a naked state. What I'm saying is that it is an undesirable state, according to Paul.
    Because Paul speaks of being "naked" then we can understand that there is a state when a person is without a body. What he says about being "naked" must have a meaning we can understand and the only possible meaning which makes sense to me is that a Christian will be without a body when he dies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    There is also the strange idea that we meet Jesus in heaven when we die, and then we meet Him in the air when He returns. How is it that we meet Him twice?
    Once a Christian dies he goes to be with the Lord in heaven. Then when the Lord Jesus descends the Christian will be with Him. And then he will be raised in a new body just like the Lord Jesus' body.

    Then the living saints who are caught up to meet Him in the air will also put on new glorious bodies.

  6. #201
    Over 1500 post club Derf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Once a Christian dies he goes to be with the Lord in heaven. Then when the Lord Jesus descends the Christian will be with Him. And then they will be raised in new bodies just like the Lord Jesus' body.

    Then the living saints who are caught up to meet Him in the air will also put on new glorious bodies.
    Then you don't see anywhere that dead believers are raised from the earth to meet Jesus? Like here:
    [1Th 4:16 NKJV] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
    [1Th 4:17 NKJV] Then we who are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

  7. #202
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Let me get this straight, great one. When Adam and Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil their hearts starting beating and began to supply blood to their bodies?

    Did their bodies change in any other way when that ate of that tree?
    There is no doubt whatsoever, we see, it is clear, it is obvious, that you are attacking the messenger, assassinating me, and misquoting me, one of the giants of mid Acts dispensationalism, and misquoting others, ignoring what sir Paul says in Romans-Philemon, and then are running and hiding to your Acts 2 "the Lord Jesus Christ had flesh and blood in heaven before he became a man" laughable, ridiculous, silly theory, and your laughable, silly ridiculous evaporation theory, that says he lost his "flesh and bones" spiritual body,on the way to the third heaven, as it was evaporated, when he was hit by an asteroid. BRILLIANT!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The Lord Jesus was in heaven as Man before He came down to earth and was born of Mary.
    And we see that you have no answer, as to, if the LORD God was gracious, in not allowing them to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, after the fall, as that would mean that they would live forever in a fallen state, why would they need to eat of the tree, to live forever, if they had no sin in them when born? Why would they die?
    Last edited by john w; March 13th, 2018 at 04:14 PM.
    Saint John W

  8. #203
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    The spirit is not a conscious life, that is the soul.
    No, the spirit is the life.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  9. #204
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    You seem to be confusing the soul with the spirit.
    The spirit is not alive, the spirit makes the body live.
    Huh? The spirit is not alive, but it make the body live? lol
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  10. #205
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    So, if John was "in the spirit" and Paul was, too, then is it possible that we could be "in the spirit" in heaven when we are asleep/dead?

    Some have suggested that Paul's OOB experience was when he was left for dead in Lystra. If that's the case, do you think it gives some evidence for a spiritual awareness in heaven when the body is dead?
    There are many credible reports of people having out-of-body experiences, typically when they become clinically dead for a short period of time.
    Is it the soul of a person that has not completely died off that has these experiences or is there a separate "spirit" that does not rely on the life of the body that has these experiences?
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  11. #206
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Huh? The spirit is not alive, but it make the body live? lol
    Yep.
    The spirit, when added to a body, creates a living soul according to scripture.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Yep.
    The spirit, when added to a body, creates a living soul according to scripture.
    The scripture says the spirit makes the body alive.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  13. #208
    Over 1500 post club Derf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    There are many credible reports of people having out-of-body experiences, typically when they become clinically dead for a short period of time.
    Is it the soul of a person that has not completely died off that has these experiences or is there a separate "spirit" that does not rely on the life of the body that has these experiences?
    I admit of a great deal of ignorance in this topic. The passages about resurrection seem not to recognize any other kind of existence than with a physical body of some type. And if there is some kind of hope that does not need a resurrection of the body, it isn't a primary focus of any of the books of the bible, though it seems like it should be if that is a preferred state.

    What's funny is that Paul called his audience "fools" for not understanding that the body must die to get the final body from God--like they should have understood already what he was telling them.

    Are we foolish for not understanding this topic?

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    Over 1500 post club Derf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Yep.
    The spirit, when added to a body, creates a living soul according to scripture.
    Almost like the spirit is the life energy needed to animate the body, but it isn't the person without the spirit.

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    I admit of a great deal of ignorance in this topic. The passages about resurrection seem not to recognize any other kind of existence than with a physical body of some type. And if there is some kind of hope that does not need a resurrection of the body, it isn't a primary focus of any of the books of the bible, though it seems like it should be if that is a preferred state.

    What's funny is that Paul called his audience "fools" for not understanding that the body must die to get the final body from God--like they should have understood already what he was telling them.

    Are we foolish for not understanding this topic?
    1 Cor. 15:36-38 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

    People were closer to the earth in those days. They actually took seeds from a dead plant and put them in the ground....instead of going to the grocery store like we do.

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