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Thread: Rightly Dividing MADs

  1. #286
    Get your armor ready! Tambora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    As I said, when He rose from the dead He only had one body but that body was adaptable to the environment where it is found. On earth it was adapted to being an earthly body but when in heaven it is adapted to a heavenly body.
    But you seem to be saying that He has a flesh and bone body for the earth environment, but then switches to another (as in a different body) non flesh and bone body for the heaven environment.
    Am I understanding your stance correctly?
    Or do you think as I do, that it is the same risen flesh and bone body no matter which environment He is in at the time?
    In other words, I see no reason why His flesh and bone body cannot have a countenance change of appearance.
    Especially when we already have the example of Moses' countenance change while in his same body.

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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  3. #287
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    But you seem to be saying that He has a flesh and bone body for the earth environment, but then switches to another (as in a different body) non flesh and bone body for the heaven environment.
    Am I understanding your stance correctly?
    Or do you think as I do, that it is the same risen flesh and bone body no matter which environment He is in at the time?
    In other words, I see no reason why His flesh and bone body cannot have a countenance change of appearance.
    Especially when we already have the example of Moses' countenance change while in his same body.
    Jerry has been shown this:


    Ephesians 5:30 KJV For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.


    There can be no doubt whatsoever, that the Lord Jesus Christ now, in this dispensation, now, is in the same "flesh and bones" spiritual body, the same resurrected, glorified body, that came out of the tomb.


    And by me including "There can be no doubt whatsoever," that ends the discussion, per Jerry, who is always right.
    Saint John W

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  5. #288
    Get your armor ready! Tambora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Jerry has been shown this:


    Ephesians 5:30 KJV For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

    That's what I like to call a clincher.

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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  7. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    I said that the Lord Jesus is not now in heaven in a flesh and bone body, the same flesh and bone body which was seen by people when He ascended into heaven.

    Hi Jerry and here is a verse that convinces me in Luke 24:51 !!

    It is a Greek verb CARRIED UP / ANAPHEMI which is in the Greek IMPERFECT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD and is a FACT !!

    So , verse 51 says that as Jesus was carried up in a Flesh and BONE BODY He will return the same way as He ASCENDED UP !!

    dan p

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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  9. #291
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    The supernatural body will change from an earthly, natural body to a heavenly, spiritual body.

    Not two different bodies but the same supernatural body which is adaptable.

    Those in the Body will have bodies just like the Lord's heavenly body. And Paul describes the body which those in the Body will wear as being different from the flesh and bone bodies which we now have:

    "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven"
    (2 Cor.5:1-2).

    When Paul uses the words "made with hands" he is referring to our flesh and bones body. And when he speaks of a body which is in heaven he is clearly distinguishing the flesh and bone body from the spiritual body which Christians will put on at the rapture.

    It makes no sense to say that those in the Body will have a flesh and bone body with just a change in its countenance.

  10. #292
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    So , verse 51 says that as Jesus was carried up in a Flesh and BONE BODY He will return the same way as He ASCENDED UP !!
    Yes, and when He returns to the earth in His supernatural body that body will be adapted to the earthly environment.

  11. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So there are two different imminent appearances of the Lord remaining in the future?
    I was NOT referring to two imminent returns, but to two different groups both expecting imminent returns.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  13. #294
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Yes, and when He returns to the earth in His supernatural body that body will be adapted to the earthly environment.
    That is a very strange belief.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  15. #295
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I was NOT referring to two imminent returns, but to two different groups both expecting imminent returns.
    Since there is only one "imminent" appearance of the Lord and at that appearance the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord then those who received the Hebrew epistles were expecting to be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air. And that is exactly what John is speaking about here:

    "Beloved, now are we the children of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure"
    (1 Jn.3:2-3).

    John refers to the things which will happen at the Lord Jesus' "appearance" as a "hope." That is exactly what Paul speaks of here:

    "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).

    When the Lord appears then the saints will put on glorious bodies just like the glorious body of the Lord Jesus and in the following verses Peter is speaking about that very thing:

    "The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed...And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away" (1 Pet.5:1,4).

  16. #296
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Since there is only one "imminent" appearance of the Lord and at that appearance the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord then those who received the Hebrew epistles were expecting to be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air. And that is exactly what John is speaking about here:

    "Beloved, now are we the children of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure"
    (1 Jn.3:2-3).

    John refers to the things which will happen at the Lord Jesus' "appearance" as a "hope." That is exactly what Paul speaks of here:

    "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).

    When the Lord appears then the saints will put on glorious bodies just like the glorious body of the Lord Jesus and in the following verses Peter is speaking about that very thing:

    "The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed...And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away" (1 Pet.5:1,4).
    Jerry, two questions:

    1. What was transpiring in the one year after Christ's ascension into Heaven?

    2. How soon were His followers expecting Him to return?

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  18. #297
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Jerry, two questions:

    1. What was transpiring in the one year after Christ's ascension into Heaven?

    2. How soon were His followers expecting Him to return?
    First of all, an imminent return of the Lord Jesus was not revealed until Paul. But later it was also taught in the Hebrew epistles. So they all knew that appearance could happen at any time.

    As far as what was going on one year after the Lord Jesus ascended into heaven, I am not sure as to what event you are referring to.

    But you did a nice job of ignoring all the verses which I quoted which demonstrates that those who received the Hebrew epistles were expecting to put on a glorious body just like the Lord's glorious body at His imminent appearance.

  19. #298
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    First of all, an imminent return of the Lord Jesus was not revealed until Paul. But later it was also taught in the Hebrew epistles. So they all knew that appearance could happen at any time.
    James 5 KJV
    7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

    8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.


    Jerry: There can be no doubt whatsoever, we see that that James, which is obviously written to members of the boc,that an imminent return of the Lord Jesus was revealed to him, before Paul. Of course, since you are always right, you know when James was written=after Paul!!!

    Revelation 1 KJV
    3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

    Revelation 22 KJV
    10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

    Jerry: There can be no doubt whatsoever, we see that that Revelation, which is obviously written to members of the boc,that an imminent return of the Lord Jesus was revealed to John, before Paul. Of course, since you are always right, you know when Revelation was written=after Paul!!!
    Saint John W

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  21. #299
    TOL Legend musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    A logical fallacy....

    Just because both expected an imminent return does NOT mean that they are the SAME.
    Yep, told him that nigh onto 2 weeks ago but he ignored it. It's like showing a chicken a card trick -- the point is completely ignored.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Yes, and when He returns to the earth in His supernatural body that body will be adapted to the earthly environment.



    wut
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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