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Thread: Roman Catholic Doctrines

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    Roman Catholic Doctrines

    Catholic Friends,

    I would like to ask some questions seeking a better understanding of official Catholic stances on certain doctrines. I am not seeking to debate (yet ), but to gain a more accurate understanding of Carholic doctrine.

    1. What is the Catholic view of original sin?
    2. What is the view of/interpretation of predestination, particularly in regards to Eph. 1:1-14 and Romans 9?
    3. What is the view concerning the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the role of the Spirit and the believer in sanctification?

    Full disclosure, I am Reformed, but I appreciate any insight you can give me to better grasp Catholic teaching. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdhiggins View Post
    Catholic Friends,

    I would like to ask some questions seeking a better understanding of official Catholic stances on certain doctrines. I am not seeking to debate (yet ), but to gain a more accurate understanding of Carholic doctrine.

    1. What is the Catholic view of original sin?
    2. What is the view of/interpretation of predestination, particularly in regards to Eph. 1:1-14 and Romans 9?
    3. What is the view concerning the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the role of the Spirit and the believer in sanctification?

    Full disclosure, I am Reformed, but I appreciate any insight you can give me to better grasp Catholic teaching. Thanks!
    I'm not catholic but I would like to kindly offer some advice from an outsiders perspective.

    I would suggest that if you are honestly seeking truth, then scripture is where you want to find the answers. If church doctrine doesn't agree with scripture, which one do you go with?

    For example, original sin. How did Jesus and the apostles deal with it.
    Wretched man that I am.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to turbosixx For Your Post:

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    I'm not catholic but I would like to kindly offer some advice from an outsiders perspective.

    I would suggest that if you are honestly seeking truth, then scripture is where you want to find the answers. If church doctrine doesn't agree with scripture, which one do you go with?

    For example, original sin. How did Jesus and the apostles deal with it.
    I am looking for what Catholics teach about the issues. I am Reformed in my thinking (except in regards to infant baptism), but I would like to hear from Catholics what they believe about the questions posed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdhiggins View Post
    I am looking for what Catholics teach about the issues. I am Reformed in my thinking (except in regards to infant baptism), but I would like to hear from Catholics what they believe about the questions posed.
    Can we talk about infant baptism?
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Can we talk about infant baptism?
    Well, since there aren't any Catholics here answering my questions, I suppose so.

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    They should be here shortly.

    So I'm gonna assume you believe in infant baptism. I'm curious what scripture/s is this based on.
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdhiggins View Post
    Well, since there aren't any Catholics here answering my questions, I suppose so.
    It seems the Catholics here don't like to contend for their faith.

    Here is one scripture to show that infant baptism is not biblical.

    Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    An infant cannot repent. Many denominations perform infant baptisms. The way to salvation changes by infant baptism. Infant baptism is not biblical. Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, a sect of Methodists, and Reformed denominations perform infant baptisms; they preach this falseness, which is a damaging blow to those needing the truth.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    It seems the Catholics here don't like to contend for their faith.

    Here is one scripture to show that infant baptism is not biblical.

    Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    An infant cannot repent. Many denominations perform infant baptisms. The way to salvation changes by infant baptism. Infant baptism is not biblical. Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, a sect of Methodists, and Reformed denominations perform infant baptisms; they preach this falseness, which is a damaging blow to those needing the truth.
    I agree, which is why I do not agree with infant baptism. However, I would not go so far as to say that it is unbiblical. I would recommend listening to R.C. Sproul defend his position on infant baptism. I do not think the arguments are conclusive enough to warrant infant baptism, but I can see how some Reformed persons would think so. Also, the issue is secondary if it is stated correctly. For example, R.C. Sproul is very adamant that baptism does not grant salvation to anyone, which I fully agree with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdhiggins View Post
    I agree, which is why I do not agree with infant baptism. However, I would not go so far as to say that it is unbiblical.
    In what way is infant baptism Biblical?

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    For example, original sin. How did Jesus and the apostles deal with it.
    The Lord Jesus didn't believe the theory of Original Sin. According to that theory infants and little children emerge from the womb spiritually dead and banned from the kingdom until they are born of God. However, the Lord said that the kingdom belongs to little children:

    "Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them. Jesus said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these'"
    (Mt.19:13-14).

    The choice is clear. A person can either believe the Lord Jesus or believe the theory of Original Sin. A person cannot believe both because both are mutually exclusive. Either one or the other but not both. I believe the Lord Jesus Christ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdhiggins View Post
    I agree, which is why I do not agree with infant baptism. However, I would not go so far as to say that it is unbiblical. I would recommend listening to R.C. Sproul defend his position on infant baptism. I do not think the arguments are conclusive enough to warrant infant baptism, but I can see how some Reformed persons would think so. Also, the issue is secondary if it is stated correctly. For example, R.C. Sproul is very adamant that baptism does not grant salvation to anyone, which I fully agree with.
    Why do something because of man's fears instead of obey God?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdhiggins View Post
    Catholic Friends,

    I would like to ask some questions seeking a better understanding of official Catholic stances on certain doctrines. I am not seeking to debate (yet ), but to gain a more accurate understanding of Carholic doctrine.
    No worries. I am here to enlighten.

    1. What is the Catholic view of original sin?
    That sin, through the Fall, is imputed onto mankind. This is called "Original Sin." We would view Adam and Eve as bearing a grace of original holiness (since they did not sin before the Fall). Thus, when they first disobeyed God, preferring to exalt themselves, they fell, and became the origin of the first sin of mankind, therefore, "Original Sin."

    2. What is the view of/interpretation of predestination, particularly in regards to Eph. 1:1-14 and Romans 9?
    It is undeniable that the Elect exist, predestined before their birth. However, we also know that free will exists. So, Catholicism rejects the Calvinist doctrine of election/predestination. This doctrine does not align with Scripture; an easy example being John 3:16. We know that God/Christ wants us to seek Him out. If we are predestined absolutely, then there can be no seeking. There can be no choice. There can be no intent. Such a doctrine eliminates personal responsibility, in the end, blaming God for souls going to hell.

    My personal theory is that the Elect are those chosen to lead God's people at various times throughout history. Such as Moses, John the Baptist, etc.

    3. What is the view concerning the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the role of the Spirit and the believer in sanctification?
    The Holy Spirit descends on us in Baptism. It remains within us, unless we forsake it. God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, the Trinity, will never remove us from grace; we remove ourselves. Now, I would encourage all not to remove themselves, but that is just concern for their soul.

    The Catholic view of sanctification varies from the Protestant view (most of Protestants at least), only in perspective. To find specific differences, I would need to know which denomination to compare the Catholic doctrine against.

    Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. Grace is a participation in the life of God. It introduces us into the intimacy of Trinitarian life: by Baptism the Christian participates in the grace of Christ, the Head of His Body. As an "adopted son" one can henceforth call God "Father," in union with the only Son. One receives the life of the Spirit who breathes charity into them and which forms the Church.

    This vocation to eternal life is supernatural. It depends entirely on God's gratuitous initiative, for He alone can reveal and give Himself. It surpasses the power of human intellect and will. The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of His own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism. It is in us the source of the work of sanctification. Therefore if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself. Sanctifying grace is an habitual gift, a stable and supernatural disposition that perfects the soul itself to enable it to live with God, to act by his love. Habitual grace, the permanent disposition to live and act in keeping with God's call, is distinguished from actual graces which refer to God's interventions, whether at the beginning of conversion or in the course of the work of sanctification.


    On a final note: if you have repented and been baptized in the name of the Holy Trinity, then you are a member of the mystical Body of Christ. Catholics view you as a brother/sister in Christ.
    Last edited by jsanford108; March 2nd, 2018 at 01:46 PM. Reason: spelling and grammar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    On a final note: if you have repented and been baptized in the name of the Holy Trinity, then you are a member of the mystical Body of Christ. Catholics view you as a brother/sister in Christ.
    So no one can be in the Body of Christ unless they submit to the rite of water baptism? And does that baptism have to be done by the priests of the church at Rome or can anyone perform the rite?

    And what does infant baptism accomplish that makes an infant fit for the kingdom of God?

    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So no one can be in the Body of Christ unless they submit to the rite of water baptism? And does that baptism have to be done by the priests of the church at Rome or can anyone perform the rite?
    Correct. Unless one is born again of water and of spirit (John 3:5), they cannot enter into eternal life. Anyone can perform a baptism, as long as it is done in the name of the Trinity.

    And what does infant baptism accomplish that makes an infant fit for the kingdom of God?
    The infant is consecrated to Christ, and the Holy Spirit descends to dwell within them.

    To be clear, if an unbaptized infant passed (a tragic thing), they would still enter into God's rest, due to God's grace and mercy being boundless. One is only concerned about the child past the age of reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    Correct. Unless one is born again of water and of spirit (John 3:5), they cannot enter into eternal life. Anyone can perform a baptism, as long as it is done in the name of the Trinity.
    Thanks for your reply. The Lord Jesus identifies the baptism of water and spirit as being the same thing as being "born again" (John 3:3-5). And a person is born again when he believes the gospel (1 Pet.1:23-25). So how do we understand the "water"?:

    "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word"
    (Eph.5:26).

    At John 3:5 the Lord was using the word "water" symbolically and the meaning is the "word.

    Here is how James says about the new birth:

    "He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).

    Besides that, the gospel comes in the Holy Spirit (1 Thess.1:5) so when we understand that the Lord was using figurative language where the "water" symbolizes the "word" then the Lord's words are actually saying, "born of the word and the Spirit."

    And that matches other places in the Scriptures that reveal that a person is born of God by believing (1 Jn.1-5; Jn.1:12-13). So we have four different places which reveal that the new birth comes through believing and none which reveals it is through water.

    Besides that, it is a simple thing to show that the baptismal regeneration of Rome came straight from pagan religions.

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