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Thread: Is believing/faith a work ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    Absolutely !

    It's only once a person has been Given a New Heart is he made able to perform the actions described here:

    Rom. 10:9-10
    That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    You have to do the believing and confessing with the FREE WILL that God gave you.

    Ezekiel 18:27-28
    27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
    28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    You have to do the believing and confessing with the FREE WILL that God gave you.

    Ezekiel 18:27-28
    27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
    28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

    The only possibility of a wicked man turning from his wickedness and practicing justice and righteousness is if God quickens him; that is to be made spiritually alive: born from above !
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    The only possibility of a wicked man turning from his wickedness and practicing justice and righteousness is if God quickens him; that is to be made spiritually alive: born from above !
    God gave man free will so man would have the ability to turn from his wickedness to practicing justice and righteousness.
    God doesn't quicken a man until after the man has already turned from his wickedness.


    Spoiler
    (Except for Calvinists, they are the only ones that are stuck in Total Depravity and can't turn away from it).
    Learn to read what is written.

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    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    God gave man free will so man would have the ability to turn from his wickedness to practicing justice and righteousness.
    God doesn't quicken a man until after the man has already turned from his wickedness.


    Spoiler
    (Except for Calvinists, they are the only ones that are stuck in Total Depravity and can't turn away from it).

    The God I serve clearly states that He does all things according to HIS WILL:

    Dan. 4:35
    And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing:
    and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven,
    and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand,
    or say unto him, What doest thou?
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    The God I serve clearly states that He does all things according to HIS WILL:
    God is the Father, you and I are the sons.

    Matthew 21:28-31
    28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
    29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
    30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
    31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.



    The sons have the ability to do the will of the Father or not.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    God is the Father, you and I are the sons.

    Matthew 21:28-31
    28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
    29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
    30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
    31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.



    The sons have the ability to do the will of the Father or not.

    God's Sons are exclusive to those who were Chosen of the Father in Union with Christ Eph. 1:4-5.

    All the rest are not His Sons, but are of their father the devil Mat. 13:38.
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

  11. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

    See strongs # 2041:


    1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied

      1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

    2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


    3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

      A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND

      The mind is :

      (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.

      Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.

      So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.

      Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20


      Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


      20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

      How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh

      So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..

      Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]

      But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.


    Amen !

    Salvation is by Grace Eph. 2:8 given to all God's Elect Sons before the world began.

    2 Tim. 1:8-10
    Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

  12. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Which banana would you choose of these two and why?

    Spam rabbit trail

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    Amen !

    Salvation is by Grace Eph. 2:8 given to all God's Elect Sons before the world began.

    2 Tim. 1:8-10
    Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
    Amen. As 2 Tim 2:10 emphasizes "not according to our works" not because we believe, since believing is a work we do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    You have to do the believing and confessing with the FREE WILL that God gave you.

    Ezekiel 18:27-28
    27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
    28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
    Believing is a work. That's the point of this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Amen. As 2 Tim 2:10 emphasizes "not according to our works" not because we believe, since believing is a work we do!
    Exactly!
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

    See strongs # 2041:


    1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied

      1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

    2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


    3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

      A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND

      The mind is :

      (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.

      Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.

      So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.

      Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20


      Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


      20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

      How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh

      So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..

      Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]

      But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.


    Believe produces works.

    If one actually believes something then they live their life according to said belief.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    Believe produces works.

    If one actually believes something then they live their life according to said belief.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
    Did u read the points made in the Op ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Did u read the points made in the Op ?
    Yes Sir; twice now.

    I even agreed with it.

    But to be clear faith is not a work. It is what causes works of GOD to be reflected by man. The only way you can justifiably say faith is a work is to say that faith isn't a free gift or gift of any sort, but some thing earned or stolen. I'm certain it can't be stolen. Though one may turn from certain things in recognition of evil inclination and depravity, that isn't faith or the reception there of.

    Hope is not a work. It is an understanding of one's own need and seeming helplessness. Calling on the Lord is not a work, it is a confession of ones inability to change and the sincere cry for help/ guidance/ strength. These things seem to be the only precursors to receiving faith if there are any at all. Faith isn't a work though as it is given to us and not something we work for.

    Now; after receiving faith then works pleasing to GOD should come into play at some point, as faith is effectual and to believe is to act accordingly to belief.

    Don't you agree on at least some of my points?

    peace

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  20. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    Yes Sir; twice now.

    I even agreed with it.

    But to be clear faith is not a work. It is what causes works of GOD to be reflected by man. The only way you can justifiably say faith is a work is to say that faith isn't a free gift or gift of any sort, but some thing earned or stolen. I'm certain it can't be stolen. Though one may turn from certain things in recognition of evil inclination and depravity, that isn't faith or the reception there of.

    Hope is not a work. It is an understanding of one's own need and seeming helplessness. Calling on the Lord is not a work, it is a confession of ones inability to change and the sincere cry for help/ guidance/ strength. These things seem to be the only precursors to receiving faith if there are any at all. Faith isn't a work though as it is given to us and not something we work for.

    Now; after receiving faith then works pleasing to GOD should come into play at some point, as faith is effectual and to believe is to act accordingly to belief.

    Don't you agree on at least some of my points?

    peace

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
    You contradict yourself saying you agree with op points and then turned around and said Faith is not a work. Faith/believing is a work. Read how in Op.

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